A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.
Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.
Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.
This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros
", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.
(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM
I think it depend if a clear stuff can be see.
Like game and stuff are not strange to vague generic setting in order to save time or were the setting arent the main draw. like a lot of wuxia and anime games made in theor country have this generic unimportant feel.
BUT when you are actually setting a specific asthetic then the demand of authenticity become higher.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"There is also how when depicting a fantastical version of what are supposed to be realistic or realistic-adjacent places, they're not selling you realism, they're selling you a feeling. They're selling you what they want you to feel about the place. It doesn't have to be historically accurate, it has to sell a historical verisimilitude. Thus why you get a whole bunch of angry internet dwellers complaining when their medieval fantasy isn't purely lily white (it was a complaint levied against Kingdom Come Deliverence 2, for instance), because other media has sold them this verisimilitude that medieval Europe was all white.
What also sometimes becomes the issue is that the verisimilitude being sold is depicted by people neither from the culture, descended from the culture, or with the input of the people from the culture, meaning that the culture as depicted to the world is done by people who don't know anything about it, nor have any incentive to make sure it's respectful.
But more that matters is that it's the type of feelings that the represented wants to be placed forward, inaccuracies be damned. For instance, the game, Ghost of Tsushima was fairly well-received by Japanese people, despite many historical inaccuracies. And it's not like it's a fictional place and time. Tsushima is an actual archipelago in Japan and the setting places it directly during the first Mongol invasion, which would be 1274. But despite the real time and place, it had anachronisms such as the wielding of the katana, the presence of bushido, collecting modern haikus, or that there is a requirement of honor against invaders, so the entire emotional theme should not have have happened in that specific time period. But it felt Japanese, in a way the Japanese want to be represented.
Edited by HeyMikey on May 24th 2025 at 11:31:23 AM
Mulan from disney it a good example, it a mix mash of diferent dysnasty but it feel "chiniese" enought in a kinda harmless and intersting way.
tecnically speaking wakanda is a good example, in that it kinda a sorta mish max of diferent african stuff place in one place but it just...sorta work?. in a way you can kinda call it frican shop suey but in a way that works.
tropes and tools and all that.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"The best think I can say about quality of represenation of Europe is, that it is divided to smaller pieces than rest of world. When I was younger, I was iritate by polka dancers with lederhosens (czech dance, bayern clothes), but now, I just ignore it, because it is too comon for emotional reaction.
Yes, probably it is better when generalized regions have around 50 milions people than 500 or more. But it is just quantity difference, not quality all of it is only theme park. And historical things are of corse worse in all.
Yeah I personally don't take it wrong when a fictionalized Latin Land is represented, they can even be cute sometimes. Is better than missrepresenting a real life country (looking at you Jurassic Park and your San José, Costa Rica with palms trees and beaches).
Edited by TVGuy on May 25th 2025 at 12:24:10 PM
You see it even in local period fiction. I've been reading some Judge Dee novels recently; a Tang dynasty Judge who had many detective novels written about him in the Ming and Qing periods as if he lived in a generic Song dynasty time period. The past is a foreign country and all that
Edited by Gaiazun on May 25th 2025 at 12:42:10 PM
It helps that the Wuxia genre also tends to be non-specific in term of time period unless specified otherwise.
Continue writing our story of peace.Or it just takes place in the Jianghu, which is just the equivalent of Medieval europe but for China (In the same way Japanese Jidai Geki is Heian-Sengoku era Japan)
Watch SymphogearI've had on my bookshelves for awhile a translation of a Chinese novel (IIRC from the early 1900s) about Ji Gong
, and when I started flipping through it, it reads as super similar to Water Margin, which in fairness, actually was set in around the same time period as Ji Gong lived. Although it was written a couple of hundred years later.
But I definitely definitely get the sense of a sort of standard setting and tropes, which would also come up in the Judge Dee books. Quite similar too in the sense of a popular semi-legendary historical figure that had appeared in tons of stories at the point a Western author got their hands on them (the translation/editing of the Ji Gong book has a mysterious provenance).
Spoilers for Lilo & Stitch (2025). There have been some criticisms of the ending of the movie based on misconceptions. This article
written by a Native Hawaiian writer attempts to clear it up.
x4 Sadly, I bet a lot of people whining about the ending won't care, but I personally appreciate seeing someone more versed in Hawaiian culture give their take and providing a perspective that outsiders are not likely to be familiar with.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on May 31st 2025 at 10:40:52 AM
"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."Yeah, I think the message of "sometimes family is your neighbor who can look after your sister" is... fine, it's just not nearly as fun//charming//heartwarming as "Sometimes a family is two sisters, one of the sisters' extremely loyal not-quite-boyfriend, their weird alien dog, a mad scientist who didn't have the heart to kill it, and an alien diplomat in drag, and that's okay", and also, if the next door neighbor can look after Lilo and could always have been looking after Lilo at any time, it really takes away from the movie's story of Lilo and Nani's struggle to stay together.
Clown To Clown Handshake Initiating...I guess there’s an argument to be made that the ”easy” solution was in front of them this entire time being a rather good message… but since this is also a movie, remake besides, it just ends up feeling like a "Could Have Avoided This!" Plot, maybe?
My AO3 profile. Let sleeping cats lie and be cute and calming.
At this point, I'd add this to the 'L' column that Disney has been taking for their own IP's for both writing and 'live action' adaptations. Better to have your offspring watch the original animated movie and series than to watch the 'live action' version, that's about as polite as I can put it. I live with a writer so I picked up on what's good and what to avoid like the plague.
Yeah, if a neighbor was already there to help out it kinda lessens the dysfunctional look of the family (which the original movie wasn't shy about posting - good lord the doors in Nani's house has loose nails and indeed, hiding in the wash tub IS a dangerous thing)
Edited by Ookamikun on May 31st 2025 at 8:26:53 AM
It is definitely worse than the original, yes. I think I'm mostly just getting annoyed by people exaggerating and misrepresenting what actually happens in the new ending ("abandon", "give up to the state", etc). I do think the inclusion of the portal bit, showing the sisters can still have pretty frequent close contact is fairly important. Although as some people have also pointed out: Nani wants to study Marine Biology, and yet for some reason moves to mainland America to do so. Even though it's not only possible, but probably better to study Marine Biology in Hawaii. 🤷

Edited by TVGuy on May 24th 2025 at 11:13:16 AM