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Diversity and Representation in Media

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A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.

Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.

Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.

    Original OP 
For discussing any racial, gender, and orientation misdoings happening across various movies and the film industry today.

This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.


(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM

TVGuy Since: Dec, 2016
#38626: May 24th 2025 at 11:13:07 PM

[up]+Thanks

[up][up][up]Well I did saw a lot of Spanish unhappy for their portrayal in Wish (tho it was a fictional kingdom for what I understand, havn't see it) so being European is not a guarantee on itself. Of course probably because in their case is the whole Spexico trope again.

Edited by TVGuy on May 24th 2025 at 11:13:16 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38627: May 24th 2025 at 11:15:36 PM

I think it depend if a clear stuff can be see.

Like game and stuff are not strange to vague generic setting in order to save time or were the setting arent the main draw. like a lot of wuxia and anime games made in theor country have this generic unimportant feel.

BUT when you are actually setting a specific asthetic then the demand of authenticity become higher.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#38628: May 24th 2025 at 11:26:27 PM

There is also how when depicting a fantastical version of what are supposed to be realistic or realistic-adjacent places, they're not selling you realism, they're selling you a feeling. They're selling you what they want you to feel about the place. It doesn't have to be historically accurate, it has to sell a historical verisimilitude. Thus why you get a whole bunch of angry internet dwellers complaining when their medieval fantasy isn't purely lily white (it was a complaint levied against Kingdom Come Deliverence 2, for instance), because other media has sold them this verisimilitude that medieval Europe was all white.

What also sometimes becomes the issue is that the verisimilitude being sold is depicted by people neither from the culture, descended from the culture, or with the input of the people from the culture, meaning that the culture as depicted to the world is done by people who don't know anything about it, nor have any incentive to make sure it's respectful.

But more that matters is that it's the type of feelings that the represented wants to be placed forward, inaccuracies be damned. For instance, the game, Ghost of Tsushima was fairly well-received by Japanese people, despite many historical inaccuracies. And it's not like it's a fictional place and time. Tsushima is an actual archipelago in Japan and the setting places it directly during the first Mongol invasion, which would be 1274. But despite the real time and place, it had anachronisms such as the wielding of the katana, the presence of bushido, collecting modern haikus, or that there is a requirement of honor against invaders, so the entire emotional theme should not have have happened in that specific time period. But it felt Japanese, in a way the Japanese want to be represented.

Edited by HeyMikey on May 24th 2025 at 11:31:23 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38629: May 24th 2025 at 11:39:03 PM

Mulan from disney it a good example, it a mix mash of diferent dysnasty but it feel "chiniese" enought in a kinda harmless and intersting way.

tecnically speaking wakanda is a good example, in that it kinda a sorta mish max of diferent african stuff place in one place but it just...sorta work?. in a way you can kinda call it frican shop suey but in a way that works.

tropes and tools and all that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#38630: May 24th 2025 at 11:49:55 PM

In Wakanda's case it's due to Western works constantly portraying African nations either as Darkest Africa who barely left the Stone Age and/or war-torn, terrorist and child soldier-infested hellscapes.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Logaritmus Since: Dec, 2022
#38631: May 24th 2025 at 11:54:18 PM

The best think I can say about quality of represenation of Europe is, that it is divided to smaller pieces than rest of world. When I was younger, I was iritate by polka dancers with lederhosens (czech dance, bayern clothes), but now, I just ignore it, because it is too comon for emotional reaction.

Yes, probably it is better when generalized regions have around 50 milions people than 500 or more. But it is just quantity difference, not quality all of it is only theme park. And historical things are of corse worse in all.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38632: May 24th 2025 at 11:58:43 PM

[up][up]I will said is also the afro futurism here that give a sort of distintive look that make you feel wow instead of cheap.

like....funny at it is it feel like a theme partk in the good scene of wonder.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TVGuy Since: Dec, 2016
#38633: May 25th 2025 at 12:23:48 AM

Yeah I personally don't take it wrong when a fictionalized Latin Land is represented, they can even be cute sometimes. Is better than missrepresenting a real life country (looking at you Jurassic Park and your San José, Costa Rica with palms trees and beaches).

Edited by TVGuy on May 25th 2025 at 12:24:10 PM

Gaiazun Since: Jul, 2020
#38634: May 25th 2025 at 12:32:11 AM

You see it even in local period fiction. I've been reading some Judge Dee novels recently; a Tang dynasty Judge who had many detective novels written about him in the Ming and Qing periods as if he lived in a generic Song dynasty time period. The past is a foreign country and all that

Edited by Gaiazun on May 25th 2025 at 12:42:10 PM

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#38635: May 25th 2025 at 2:57:57 PM

[up]x6 And while it isn't as obvious, Kung Fu Panda has a distinct "ancient China" mix as well with no specific dynasty but familiar to non-Chinese, yet is beloved by China as well.

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#38636: May 25th 2025 at 2:59:02 PM

It helps that the Wuxia genre also tends to be non-specific in term of time period unless specified otherwise.

Continue writing our story of peace.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#38637: May 25th 2025 at 6:02:54 PM

Or it just takes place in the Jianghu, which is just the equivalent of Medieval europe but for China (In the same way Japanese Jidai Geki is Heian-Sengoku era Japan)

Watch Symphogear
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#38638: May 26th 2025 at 10:56:16 AM

I've had on my bookshelves for awhile a translation of a Chinese novel (IIRC from the early 1900s) about Ji Gong, and when I started flipping through it, it reads as super similar to Water Margin, which in fairness, actually was set in around the same time period as Ji Gong lived. Although it was written a couple of hundred years later.

But I definitely definitely get the sense of a sort of standard setting and tropes, which would also come up in the Judge Dee books. Quite similar too in the sense of a popular semi-legendary historical figure that had appeared in tons of stories at the point a Western author got their hands on them (the translation/editing of the Ji Gong book has a mysterious provenance).

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#38639: May 31st 2025 at 4:54:49 AM

Spoilers for Lilo & Stitch (2025). There have been some criticisms of the ending of the movie based on misconceptions. This article written by a Native Hawaiian writer attempts to clear it up.

At the end of the 2002 animated version, Lilo and Nani live happily ever after together with Stitch and their other alien friends. In the live-action remake, however, Nani agrees with the social worker, Mrs. Kekoa, that Lilo should live elsewhere. Then it’s revealed that Lilo will live with Tutu, a new character who is a longtime family friend and neighbor. Tutu and Lilo then tell Nani that she should follow her own dreams: going to college in California to study marine biology at UC San Diego.

“While the movie says that ‘Ohana’ means ‘nobody gets left behind,’ Lilo is literally left behind in Hawaii,” wrote Robert Pitman of Screen Rant. On social media, others agree. “The new lilo and stitch live action has rewritten the ending to showcase an indigenous hawaiian woman (the character, not the actor) giving up her indigenous hawaiian sister to the foster care system so that she can leave her homeland and go to school on the mainland. It’s a concerning display of imperialist ideology to say the very least,” wrote dorothyannedouglas on Threads.

However, these views fail to look at family through a Hawaiian lens.

Nani isn’t abandoning Lilo or giving her up. She’s not leaving Lilo behind, because Tutu is a part of their ohana too. At the end of the movie, the social worker Mrs. Kekoa facilitates a type of hanai relationship among Lilo, Nani and Tutu. “It is usually a much easier transition in these foster situations if the family, hanai or otherwise, are involved,” Mrs. Kekoa says, referring to Tutu as their hanai family.

However, hanai is never explained in the movie. A Hawaiian tradition, hanai is a type of adoptive relationship, which really can’t be compared to the Western definition of adoption. Hanai is more complex and fluid, with many variations.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#38640: May 31st 2025 at 5:01:15 AM

[up]Interesting read. Is it ok if I share it in the Live-Action Film thread?

Edited by KRider on May 31st 2025 at 8:02:29 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#38641: May 31st 2025 at 8:28:02 AM

[up]Sure. Just make sure to keep the spoiler tags.

MovieNut14 from the U.S. of A (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#38642: May 31st 2025 at 10:08:56 AM

Wow. Disney really missed the entire point of the original movie which they also made.

"We are all so afraid, we are all so alone, we all so need from the outside the assurance of our own worthiness to exist."
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#38643: May 31st 2025 at 10:40:28 AM

[up]x4 Sadly, I bet a lot of people whining about the ending won't care, but I personally appreciate seeing someone more versed in Hawaiian culture give their take and providing a perspective that outsiders are not likely to be familiar with.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on May 31st 2025 at 10:40:52 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#38644: May 31st 2025 at 11:22:40 AM

Thing is that the original also solved the issue of Nani's raising of Lilo through found family. And did so without Nani leaving. It's the difference between "It takes a village" and "If you can't, find someone else and let them handle it".

RLH4 Cool Loser from Midgard Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Cool Loser
#38645: May 31st 2025 at 11:30:21 AM

Yeah, I think the message of "sometimes family is your neighbor who can look after your sister" is... fine, it's just not nearly as fun//charming//heartwarming as "Sometimes a family is two sisters, one of the sisters' extremely loyal not-quite-boyfriend, their weird alien dog, a mad scientist who didn't have the heart to kill it, and an alien diplomat in drag, and that's okay", and also, if the next door neighbor can look after Lilo and could always have been looking after Lilo at any time, it really takes away from the movie's story of Lilo and Nani's struggle to stay together.

Clown To Clown Handshake Initiating...
MagmaTeaMerry My Head Is On Fire from A forest somewhere Since: Sep, 2020
My Head Is On Fire
#38646: May 31st 2025 at 1:47:43 PM

I guess there’s an argument to be made that the ”easy” solution was in front of them this entire time being a rather good message… but since this is also a movie, remake besides, it just ends up feeling like a "Could Have Avoided This!" Plot, maybe?

My AO3 profile. Let sleeping cats lie and be cute and calming.
GhostofPNW Ghost from Hell (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Married to the job
Ghost
#38647: May 31st 2025 at 5:19:36 PM

[up] At this point, I'd add this to the 'L' column that Disney has been taking for their own IP's for both writing and 'live action' adaptations. Better to have your offspring watch the original animated movie and series than to watch the 'live action' version, that's about as polite as I can put it. I live with a writer so I picked up on what's good and what to avoid like the plague.

Heads on a swivel, we live in unusual times.
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#38648: May 31st 2025 at 8:26:30 PM

Yeah, if a neighbor was already there to help out it kinda lessens the dysfunctional look of the family (which the original movie wasn't shy about posting - good lord the doors in Nani's house has loose nails and indeed, hiding in the wash tub IS a dangerous thing)

Edited by Ookamikun on May 31st 2025 at 8:26:53 AM

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#38649: May 31st 2025 at 11:31:25 PM

@windleopard Thanks.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#38650: Jun 1st 2025 at 1:38:59 AM

It is definitely worse than the original, yes. I think I'm mostly just getting annoyed by people exaggerating and misrepresenting what actually happens in the new ending ("abandon", "give up to the state", etc). I do think the inclusion of the portal bit, showing the sisters can still have pretty frequent close contact is fairly important. Although as some people have also pointed out: Nani wants to study Marine Biology, and yet for some reason moves to mainland America to do so. Even though it's not only possible, but probably better to study Marine Biology in Hawaii. 🤷


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