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Diversity and Representation in Media

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A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.

Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.

Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.

    Original OP 
For discussing any racial, gender, and orientation misdoings happening across various movies and the film industry today.

This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.


(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#37276: Jun 9th 2024 at 6:27:30 PM

I apologize, I was careless.

The video essay on Modern Feminist Retellings of Greek Mythology missing the point is no longer on Youtube. I wonder if it was used as "These feminists dont know mythology" and it was removed. I liked it because it wasnt really an attack on the authors but rather showing the actual side of women silenced by history that some of these modern books missed.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#37277: Jun 9th 2024 at 9:15:26 PM

Wait it was removed? Dang. I enjoyed it.

EDIT: Wait, it's still here.

Edited by Ookamikun on Jun 9th 2024 at 9:16:13 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#37278: Jun 10th 2024 at 5:16:53 AM

"You must be REALLY young."

It wasn't the first time I had learnt about same-sex relationships, just the first time I had really been confronted by the fact that "Yeah, these exist". Like I said, it demonstrates how important representation in media can be.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#37279: Jun 10th 2024 at 5:31:34 AM

The first time I heard about same sex relationships was on the way to camp for first year at high school. Someone asked me whether I was heterosexual, which I of course couldn't answer since I didn't know the word.

I can't say I ever gave it much thought as a teen, I was extremely late with puberty, so sexuality didn't interest me much at all.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Mrph1 MOD he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#37280: Jun 10th 2024 at 5:37:17 AM

Just a reminder - we have the Single Unified LGBTQ+ thread for discussion that's about people's own experiences. Whereas this thread is intended to focus on media.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#37281: Jun 10th 2024 at 5:44:41 AM

...which (mod hat off) reminds me that I need to watch Lost Boys and Fairies, the new drama about a Welsh gay couple who are looking to adopt.

The sort of representation that doesn't turn up much on British TV, even now that same-sex couples and romances do.

Interestingly, given recent conversations about whether gay roles should only be played by gay actors, that's not the case this time. Gabriel's played by Sion Daniel Young because there's a lot of Welsh dialogue and finding a Welsh-speaking gay actor for the part was challenging.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#37282: Jun 10th 2024 at 5:50:29 AM

I get why people think gay people should only be played by gay people, but I disagree. First of all, since gay people can easily play straight people, so it's not like job opportunities are lost for gay actors. Second of all, it could be seen as sending the message that there's something inherently different between straight and gay people, beyond who they want to get with.

[down]I do understand that view. I still disagree, but I can see how it might help gay actors to allow them to have gay roles. I do think though that there's also the aspect of what if an actor doesn't want to share their sexuality?

Edited by king15 on Jun 10th 2024 at 2:02:15 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37283: Jun 10th 2024 at 6:55:51 AM

The problem is that things are not equal. Yes, gay actors do sometimes get picked to play roles for straight characters. But there's still a lot of institutional prejudice against them that makes it harder to land such roles in practice.

So it is just rubbing salt in the wound when straight actors land gay character roles over gay actors.

It's about giving minorities who have had to put up with so much shit for generations a bit more level of a playing field.

It's like the same tired arguments against Affirmative Action. If all things were equal and fair, AA wouldn't be right. But things aren't equal and fair.

Edited by M84 on Jun 10th 2024 at 9:58:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#37284: Jun 10th 2024 at 9:23:03 AM

I know king15! I love that young people are learning this from more wholesome and accepting sources such as Undertale. Back then, being gay REALLY meant having to stomach really bleak narratives, even those sympathetic to queer people,even those that were defiantly hopeful, even those written by queer people had to adress the reality that there wasnt really any hope.

So much has changed, I know this is how things should have been all along but I love it.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Windona Beetle Brained from At the intersection of eternity (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Beetle Brained
#37285: Jun 10th 2024 at 12:26:24 PM

The biggest issue I have with 'queer characters must be played/written by queer actors/writers' is how often it forces people out of the closet.

My AO3
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#37286: Jun 10th 2024 at 12:56:55 PM

That and it also makes producers cast them as ONLY LGBT characters, which coupled with the limited roles fictional LGBT characters get means you pretty much have so little roles.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#37287: Jun 10th 2024 at 1:17:09 PM

I kinda see matching sexuality with the character a little different than race because it's not something that is visible and unlike race/ethnicity, sexuality is fluid and not everyone is comfortable with disclosing their's.

Macron's notes
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37288: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:28:52 PM

The point is more ensuring openly LGBTQ+ actors have roles to play. If the institutional prejudice against hiring them for straight characters goes away, then there would be no need.

But again. That is the not world we have.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#37289: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:30:21 PM

At least not yet.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#37290: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:31:03 PM

[up][up]I do think that could create an unfortunate situation for people of any sexualities who want to keep it private.

[down]Good point, though I still think, for some people at least, it might make them feel pressured to come out. Also, it could lead to LGBTQ+ actors being typecast in exclusively LGBTQ+ roles, which would be limiting in its own right.

Edited by king15 on Jun 10th 2024 at 9:38:35 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37291: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:33:16 PM

You forget one thing.

If they are still in the closet, they will have an easier time getting roles playing straight characters too.

So they can still get roles.

[up]Being typecast beats not getting roles at all.

Edited by M84 on Jun 10th 2024 at 5:40:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#37292: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:48:11 PM

One example of a LGBT actor being forced to stay in the closet was Kristen Stewart. She was told by her agents not to disclose her sexuality for fear that it'll cost her movie roles and she admitted the whole ordeal made her miserable.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37293: Jun 10th 2024 at 2:54:09 PM

Yes, the pressure to come out of the closet pales before the pressure to stay in the closet.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#37294: Jun 10th 2024 at 3:03:30 PM

Compare Kristen's enthusiasm before coming out vs her enthusiasm after she came out and you can clearly tell she's having a blast now that she's out and proud.

Another old reason for LGBT creatives in Hollywood being forced in the closet was the threat of being blacklisted or worse being hunted by the authorities since back then they equated queerness w/ being a "Communist sympathizer/agent". It's why then-top star Rock Hudson & his agent went through all the trouble disguising his homosexuality via fake loveless relationship w/ women.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#37295: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:03:57 AM

I'm in the camp that doesn't mind actors 1. portraying characters of any sexuality 2. being deliberately vague about their personal life.

I'm a bit torn on trans representation. There's very few trans actors, so the role disparity is more pronounced, but I also think there's nothing inherently wrong in eg. casting a cis actor to play a pre-transition or closeted trans person. The problem is when the demand of the role becomes more physical, ie. you want a character with visible results of HRT. And not everyone has a cisgender twin sibling like Laverne Cox.

The question of gender and sexuality regarding actors and roles is a bit like the question around Fake Nationality. There's nationality pairs no one raises and eyebrow at, while others can be offensive even if it isn't broad caricature. Like everything, it's case by case, and dependent on execution.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#37296: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:13:53 AM

So a while back in the MCU thread, we had a bit of discussion on Jeph Loeb stamping down on Asian representation with the logic a forum troll would be confused at.

And we know he left the company a couple of years back. For those who have watched the Marvel TV shows, has Asian representation gotten any better?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37297: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:26:37 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, horror stories like this are a big part of why I think arguments around people feeling pressured to come out of the closet aren't quite right. There aren't severe professional or even possibly legal or life-threatening consequences for closeted people to stay in the closet.

LGBTQ+ actors being preferred for LGBTQ+ roles isn't remotely on the same level.

It's better these days, but we've still got a ways to go.

Edited by M84 on Jun 11th 2024 at 5:28:11 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#37298: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:37:13 AM

[up]Good points. I think though that one can lead into the other. Actors are (less now, but still to an extent) pressured to keep their sexuality secret for the sake of their career. As a result of this, the media will try and find out people's sexualities, pressure them to come out, and therefore force the negative consequences on their career that might bring.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#37299: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:38:07 AM

That's a different problem entirely from LGBTQ+ roles and whether or not they should go to LGBTQ+ actors.

That's just typical muckraking celebrity media looking for any dirt they can get.

The point again is that LGBTQ+ actors who are already out and proud shouldn't be punished for it by being deprived of roles (on top of all of the other shit LGBTQ+ people get). So that means you either give them preference for LGBTQ+ roles or you treat them fairly in general and give them more straight roles too.

It's not a particularly fair solution, but we don't live in a particularly fair world.

Edited by M84 on Jun 11th 2024 at 5:43:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#37300: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:40:35 AM

[up][up] It’s funny this topic got brought up, because I’ve seen some internet discourse about how Star Wars being “Woke” is proof the LGBTQ+ community control Hollywood and are attempting to erase straight people.

Conveniently ignoring the negative consequences in house that a LGBTQ+ actor might face if they came out publicly.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 11th 2024 at 5:41:20 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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