A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.
Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.
Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.
This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros
", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.
(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM
Not yet, I should have one come December. It is about human-wildlife conflicts, and it includes bits of anthropology/sociology, and an important part of the discussion is how to combine qualitative and quantitative approaches when analyzing a conflict.
Old news about "Ghost in the Shell", but still stinging.
And now for something more diverse this week, and Scar Jo's in it too.
I'll probably check it out later this week. And Zootopia was great too.
Wait are they really going to keep her name the same? Jesus christ.
Even if the whitewashing wasn't actually a problem (and it definitely is) it's going to cause massive Fridge Logic.
To the best of my knowledge, so far we don't know whether or not she's going to have the same name. She's being referred to as just "The Major" at this point. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they actually have Johansson playing a character named Motoko Kusanagi, I am going to be...very displeased. Even more so than I already am. Here's blogger Phil Yu's post about the whole thing.
While I'm at it, here's
his post about the recent Doctor Strange trailer, featuring bald Tilda Swinton teaching Benedict Cumberbatch all about Magic Asian Skills.
Although it's a small point in Marvel's favor that they tried to avoid the old Asian master stereotype by casting Swinton who's said to play the role as "neutral"
, it seems to fall more afoul of the perception that "white people represent all races while POC only represent themselves" like the screenwriter of Ridley Scott's "Noah" once claimed.
*On Ghost in the Shell*: I wonder what Rinko Kikuchi's up to as of late.
*Looks up linked AAM blog*: ...what the heck New York Times??
edited 14th Apr '16 3:10:18 PM by Tuckerscreator
Someone in the MCU thread pointed out that Swinton's casting would be bearable (still something that should be discussed, but bearable) if they used this as an opportunity to shed the Ancient One of the tired faux-Orientalist mysticism. Instead we're keeping all the fake Asian mysticism, and erasing actual Asians for bonus points. It's the worst of both worlds.
And yeah, definitely not buying into the whole "she's playing the role as neutral, so it's not racist" thing. Look at the imagery in that trailer! Asian temples, monastic robes, martial arts, all the usual trappings. That's about as far from neutral as you can get.
Marvel seems to think the controversy is about the character getting gender-flipped (or maybe they're just trying to deflect away from the Race Lift), but it's really not. I'm completely fine with the character being made into a woman - Lord knows the MCU needs more female characters in it. What I love here is how they seem to be saying "we cast Tilda Swinton instead of an Asian person because we wanted the Ancient One to be female." Y'know, Marvel, there are Asian women in the world.
Back on Ghost in the Shell, this
article specifically mentions Rinko Kikuchi as a far more suitable candidate for the role. I haven't been following the movie (the whitewashing pretty much automatically makes me stop giving a shit), so I don't know if she's been mentioned a lot with regards to the film, but from what I know of her she would definitely be a better (read: less tacitly racist) choice.
And that New York Times poem...yeah, that was somewhat unfortunate. I can at least recommend following the AAM blog - it's good stuff.
edited 14th Apr '16 3:27:49 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Rinko Kinkuchi seems to have been the most popular choice for the role with most people I've spoken to, yes.
It's disappointing that Hollywood thinks they need to "westernize" Ghost in the Shell in order to sell this to audiences. Obviously I have nothing against Johansson and have enjoyed her in several films, but this was just a poor decision.
Ghost in the Shell is one of the most iconic anime series in the Western world along with Akira. It has built in name brand appeal. It's like trying Race Lift Miyazaki movies. If they really think they need to whitewash anyone then they're not only hopelessly out of touch with general society but also have zero confidence in their own work, not to mention they're going to piss off any actual fans of the work who would care to see it in the first place if they've already changed it so much right there.
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I feel like even if they kept everything about the Ancient One the exact same, if they cast a woman to play the character that would've already done away with most of the problems with the role, given patriarchalism is often a big part of Magical Asian stereotyping.
edited 14th Apr '16 3:46:20 PM by AlleyOop
Yeah. I think it would have been potentially really neat if the Ancient One was a wise Asian woman. Asian women usually only get to be exotic love interests, geishas (slash exotic love interests), or scary old dragon ladies. Having an Asian woman be a genuine mentor figure and protagonist would have been very nice to see. Instead, we get...this.
That's really due to the art style more than anything else. I mean, the main character's name is Motoko Kusanagi. The story is set in Japan. They've cast Japanese actors as numerous other characters, so the "staying true to the art style" thing doesn't hold any water for me. The characters are Japanese.
edited 14th Apr '16 3:53:45 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Those westerners who live and work in Japan, speak Japanese, and have Japanese names.
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Pretty much. The crappy Strange TV movie similarly whitewashed the character, but at least somewhat justified it by having the entire setting for the origin changed to New York and removing all the Asian elements (except Wong as his sidekick). If they had to make the Ancient One a British woman then they should have done that.
edited 14th Apr '16 4:01:54 PM by comicwriter
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The thing is a lot of anime characters are drawn like that anyways, it doesn't necessarily make them less japanese. You get shows and manga with more realistic art and more decidedly asian looking pepople but those are rare. if nothing else, Motoko Kusanagi is a japanese name.
To be quite honest, I would have expected Japan to have made their own GITS movie by this point since it's one of those series that might be doable on a smaller budget with practical effects and the like, but that's a completely different tangent.
edited 14th Apr '16 3:55:35 PM by wehrmacht
There's actually a trope for the tendency for manga/anime characters to appear white (to Westerners, at least). The name of it escapes me at the moment, but the point is that it's basically just an aesthetic thing.
And from looking at pictures of Kusanagi, she really doesn't look any more white to me than she does Asian. I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone with naturally purple hair. Nobody in real life actually looks how anime characters look.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."

Too pretty to be talented seems more like a pro wrestling casting call than a Hollywood one, and even that's the result of decades worth of conditioning (ie, models, body builders and actors who failed at the sport since the 80s)
But to give Theron the benefit of the doubt, having not read the article myself, that could be according to what role she is going for. If she was trying to play a pro wrestler or something, she might get turned away for being too pretty. She might not want roles that call for "pretty woman". She might want more roles for "broken nose, nose ring, nose tattoos woman".
Buldogue's lawyer