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Diversity and Representation in Media

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A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.

Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.

Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.

    Original OP 
For discussing any racial, gender, and orientation misdoings happening across various movies and the film industry today.

This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.


(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#276: Apr 3rd 2016 at 2:27:18 PM

[up] Well, I will refrain from listing a number of American Stereotypes.....they are nonsense anyway.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#277: Apr 4th 2016 at 12:36:36 PM

I don't mind Asians getting cross-cast as a different nationality. It bugs me less than, say, Fake Brit when actor can't fake an accent to save his life. Of course, it does bug me when they mix up aspects of their cultures, but I'm pretty sure that's true of everyone, really.

Speaking of Whedon and Sunnydale... UC: Sunnydale. Main cast? Almost entirely white. Background extras? Almost entirely white.

Average makeup of a UC campus? About 40% Asian.

edited 4th Apr '16 12:38:58 PM by Larkmarn

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Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#278: Apr 4th 2016 at 12:44:45 PM

The minorities were smart enough not to live over a Hellmouth, because Black Dude Dies First.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#279: Apr 4th 2016 at 1:55:14 PM

Or demons are just, like, super racist. So they kill the Asians first.

Which is why there are no Asians in Firefly. The demons got them.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#280: Apr 5th 2016 at 9:21:16 PM

Charlize Theron was interviewed recently in the magazine British GQ.

Jobs with real gravitas go to people that are physically right for them and that’s the end of the story. How many roles are out there for the gorgeous, f***ing, gown-wearing eight-foot model? When meaty roles come through, I’ve been in the room and pretty people get turned away first.

It and other comments are getting a mixed reception, between those that see it as "truthful" and those that see it as "whining". One of the dissenting voices is Heather Matarazzo. You might remember her from The Princess Diaries and little else. There's a reason why.

I didn’t know then just how damaging those words would be. Three words. "You’re not fuckable." [...] I didn’t think my agents were seeing me, I didn’t think casting directors were seeing me and I began to truly wonder, am I NOT seeing me?” wrote Matarazzo. “Am I ugly? Am I this unfuckable, gross, disgusting creature who should only be cast as the fat girl, or the freak?

edited 6th Apr '16 12:48:18 AM by Tuckerscreator

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#281: Apr 6th 2016 at 2:28:10 AM

Theron is full of it, this entire industry is built on pretty people.

The Blog The Art
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#282: Apr 6th 2016 at 6:45:54 AM

I saw that in the newspaper today.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiinda gotta say bullshit. In almost any other industry I can sorta see it... being so ridiculously good looking can make others not take you seriously. Sure. But acting is the one industry where that doesn't really apply. Creators and audiences alike want to see the most beautiful actors and actresses on the screen at any given time. No one's going to be watching something and thinking "oh man, this scene would be so great. Shame the main character is pretty, though. That's just unpleasant."

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#283: Apr 6th 2016 at 7:00:23 AM

Beauty is relative. In my experience the most successful actors are the most charismatic ones which are perceived as beautiful because of their charisma. To clarify, I don't think that Meryl Streep is beautiful in a classic sense. Her nose of very small for starters, giving her a slightly owlish look. But it doesn't matter because she just oozes confidence and charisma. Sean Connery actually became better looking with age imho.

But it is noticeable that female actresses have to fulfil a minimum quota for good looks (not overweight, not too small aso), while male actors don't.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#284: Apr 7th 2016 at 8:15:50 AM

[up][up]I love Charlize but yeah. Also as to her point that being beautiful is a liability, she had no problem using makeup and putting on weight to appear homely in Monster, so clearly being insanely beautiful hasn't been that much of a detriment to her career.

NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#285: Apr 8th 2016 at 2:33:13 PM

[up] Or shaving her head and kicking lots of ass in Mad Max: Fury Road.

Hell, JJ Abrams didn't have a problem with putting statuesque former model Gwendoline Christie in fully covering pimp stormtrooper armor as a glorified cameo.

edited 8th Apr '16 2:34:09 PM by NotSoBadassLongcoat

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#286: Apr 9th 2016 at 10:56:50 AM

Now THIS is incredible. Over 6000 movie scripts were analyzed line by line, to see how what percentage of male and female spoken lines they have, what age the actors were, how often they speak throughout the movie, etc.

Its results definitively show that sexism is over! *children cheer*

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#287: Apr 9th 2016 at 11:13:31 AM

Damn. That's quite a lot of work.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#288: Apr 9th 2016 at 11:45:54 AM

Or shaving her head and kicking lots of ass in Mad Max Fury Road.

Which only made her even more beautiful.

I really doubt there is a bias that goes against beautiful people. If you have two actors or actresses of similar talent, you will usually go for the better-looking one, unless you are aiming for a very specific look.

There might however be some kind of stigma that says "if s/he is that beautiful, s/he cannot be that talented" - because s/he used his/her looks to get the role, not his/her talent. When you ask who the most talented actors and actresses are, period, the usual suspects might not be the most classically handsome - Meryl Streep, Tilda Swinton, Jack Nicholson... in France, we might even have the Ur-Example in Gérard Depardieu (who is still considered to be by far the greatest French actor alive - and never was considered good-looking).

[up][up] At first, I thought you were in Sincerity Mode when you said that "sexism is over", then I read the article.

edited 9th Apr '16 11:46:55 AM by Julep

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#290: Apr 9th 2016 at 1:39:38 PM

@286

--> Study opens by complaining about the white devil.

That drop down graph thing makes it difficult to read. Try scrolling down and it pops up and hogs half the darn screen

edited 9th Apr '16 1:40:16 PM by Eagal

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#291: Apr 9th 2016 at 1:46:27 PM

Study opens by complaining about the white devil.

That's ignoring the context. The article opens with: "Lately, Hollywood has been taking so much shit for rampant sexism and racism. The prevailing theme: white men dominate movie roles. But it’s all rhetoric and no data, which gets us nowhere in terms of having an informed discussion."

Then it follows up with their study of the hard data.

edited 9th Apr '16 1:47:10 PM by Tuckerscreator

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#292: Apr 9th 2016 at 1:49:13 PM

To chime in, as I was informed somewhere else, the metric of male to female lines seems to me an arbitrary metric looking to quantify sexism, which seems to me as rather a stepping stone rather than the be-all-end-all of whether a given market is sexist.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#293: Apr 9th 2016 at 1:53:30 PM

Ultimately the best way to quantify sexism in movies would to examine each via a case-by-case basis, but that would take years to do for the 6000 films they've dissected here. This study emerged from a previous one where they were displaying how many films pass the Bechdel Test, but decided to try this proportion-of-lines approach after hearing about how the Bechdel Test may be flawed as a measurement for gender equality.

So this approach here may not be perfect, but it does seem much better in displaying character importance in a film.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#294: Apr 9th 2016 at 1:55:20 PM

I'd say, from the initial films, screen them for female line percentage, and after deciding the cutoff point, examine whether the female characters archieve a full character arc or not.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#295: Apr 9th 2016 at 2:27:01 PM

You cannot quantify a "full character arc", it is by essence qualitative data.

edited 9th Apr '16 2:27:18 PM by Julep

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#296: Apr 9th 2016 at 2:31:03 PM

Indeed it is qualitative.I am more interested in the qualitative analysis rather than the quantitative.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#297: Apr 9th 2016 at 2:43:29 PM

Since it became a major topic of my PhD, I can safely affirm that they are both required.

Many qualitative analyses are scattered throughout the internet. Quantitative ones require much more work, which is why this study is really interesting.

edited 9th Apr '16 2:43:35 PM by Julep

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#298: Apr 9th 2016 at 3:19:41 PM

You have a PhD? What was it on?

jdj42 Since: Oct, 2012
#300: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:25:51 PM

Christ, Eagal, do you have a condition that makes you see all arguments for diversity as strawmen?

The world will look up and shout "Save us", and I'll look down and whisper "Too bad, Waluigi Time" Vote Loki 2016

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