Misused: Hey Its That Voice

Have to agree with this one here. At least two-thirds of the examples for both Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice go like, "Hey! Did you know that, say, Viridi is Starfire?" which ends up being really confusing if you're unfamiliar with the voice actress or either of the works mentioned. Some examples don't even bother potholing the actress in the first place! Not to mention that, as said before, it ends up falling under People Sit On Chairs since voice actresses... act. I'm in favor of either a cut (though that would be difficult given how omnipresent it is) or making it a Just for Fun game.

edited 7th Feb '16 6:11:32 AM by NoUsername

Hmmm, a Just for Fun page could do as an alternative option.

We may need a crowner for this.

edited 7th Feb '16 7:36:26 AM by Berrenta

We already have JustForFun.Role Association.

Okay then... If it's already covered in Just for Fun, then cut the two trivia tropes it is. Anyone got any other ideas, or should we roll with it?

edited 7th Feb '16 8:34:53 AM by Berrenta

Considering the number of inbounds for both, wouldn't that qualify it for example cut+redirect (presumably to JustForFun.Role Association) as opposed to a plain cut? Just to be clear.

Role Association is a confused mess of the page that has no idea what it wants to be, and it only has 38 wicks. If the tropes get moved to Just for Fun, they should keep their names (well, Voice could probably redirect to Guy), and Role Association can be pointed there instead of the other way around.

The wick count for Role Association is irrelevant because it's not a trope and shouldn't appear in trope lists.

I'm still not seeing why this should be cut. Reasons given in this thread so far include "I hate it" and "it's dumb", which I don't find particularly persuasive.

If Hey Its That Voice is supposed to be used only for characters that not just have the same voice actor but the same voice actor using the same voice (eg, Spike from Cowboy Bebop and Mugen from Samurai Champloo would count, but Leeron from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would not) then we need the page to say that, as it's currently not at all clear. The page mentions that it's harder to spot a voice actor than a regular actor in part because "people don't always use the same 'voice' when voice acting", for example.

The fact that the page has a ton of wicks and a ton of inbounds shows that people like the article. It brings people to the wiki, which is a good thing. It's not part of the core mission of the site (defining and cataloguing tropes), no — but it's not detrimental to that mission, either. It's already under Trivia, so it's hidden away on a subpage rather than cluttering up the main page. So why get rid of it?

If we need to change the description to make it clear that only the same voice counts, not just the same voice actor, then let's do that. It's a lot of wicks to sort, but we've done bigger jobs before. "Let's get rid of it because I don't like it" is short-sighted and silly.

Part of it's because of the "same voice" misuse, yeah, which seems to come from a hazy description on the main page. As I described above, there's also a wealth of unwieldy and confusing examples that come with it, which creates a few glaring problems.

In my opinion, modifying the page to clear up the description and its examples would actually work wonders. I think if we're to keep it as a Trivia trope, some smoothing out would be necessary to match it up with other, much better-written articles. The "character X is character Y" potholes would be right out.

But the page is popular (if polarizing), so if we want to keep it as it currently is, then it'd probably be best to merge it in with Role Association along with Hey Its That Guy. The loosely-written and relaxed style matches a lot better with those entries than in the Trivia index.

Actually, looking at the Just for Fun index, both Hey Its That Voice and Hey Its That Guy are listed under there, even though neither of them have an actual Just for Fun page. Is that a mistake?

edited 7th Feb '16 11:16:59 AM by NoUsername

"Reasons given in this thread so far include "I hate it" and "it's dumb""

Well, it is dumb. But in fact a reason to cut has been given, and here it is:

Chairs. People Sit On Chairs and actors act in movies and voice actors act in animated movies. Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice aren't tropes and they aren't trivia. They're chairs.

Cut.

As much as I'd love to cut this, we can't on pure inbound count.

Crowner?

Wait, so the trope isn't "Role Association: Voice Acting Edition"? I don't think I have ever seen someone use it correctly then. It's very misused.

edited 8th Feb '16 12:04:14 PM by Pichu-kun

When I first came to TV Tropes, I saw this being used to occasionally mention when some prolific actor showed up in something, in a "omg, they're really in everything" kinda way. I recognized those actors, so I found it fun.

But as said before, that's really subjective.

Nowadays I see this and "That Guy" filling up the Trivia pages on a lot of works. Trivia aren't tropes and not the main goal of this site, but when they're real trivia, I feel like they contribute to the same sort of idea.

But a lot of things, particularly some anime, have absolutely massive lists of pretty much every character in the series under these tropes. Like an IMDB page, but with subjective commentary, and sometimes a lack of context (like whether or not they're talking about the original or dub).

I don't think this is necessarily Chairs, but in my experience, without some qualification, it's borderline Troper Tales when it comes to what is chosen and why.

edited 8th Feb '16 12:52:09 AM by Jokubas

The essential problem with how Hey Its That Voice is currently used is well described by this quote from Pop-Culture Isolation:

You know what you call a massive list of every role an actor has ever played? IMDB, and it's already a thing.

It clutters up pages and adds nothing of substance. Cut it, burn it, load the ashes onto a rocket, fire the rocket into the sun.

It's got way too many inbounds to cut. It can be turned into a 'uses the exact same voice in every work without tone changes' or 'you wouldn't notice unless told trope' though such a Daniel Craig in Star Wars and Mark Hamill in Batman type thing.

Those are the two legit uses I see here.

I like that idea. Keeps the inbounds, and also clears bad wicks and makes pages more readable.

I legitimately think this is unsalvageable as a trope and will only continue to attract misuse.

Did this new update include the ability to make false red links? Because that would be awesome for this.

Since there are two tropes making this exact page a redirect page for both trivia tropes and faux redlinking would be fine.

The page can not completely redlinked.

edited 9th Feb '16 4:30:28 PM by Memers

Perhaps Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice should be faux-redlinked and redirect to JustForFun.Role Association?

@Memers: The "you wouldn't notice unless told" criterion seems subjective enough that it wouldn't be an effective guard against the sort of misuse Hey Its That Voice has now.

There are plenty of voices that sound nothing like their normal voice or auto tuned to sound different. An example would be Persona 3's Aigis and Persona 4's Nanako share the same voice actress but sound nothing alike.

Actors in prosthetic and such to where you can't tell it's them are much the same.

Actors who are typecast into the same guy in different movies are really the heart of Hey Its That Guy. Characters that have almost the same character design get this too although it's different.

edited 9th Feb '16 8:17:40 PM by Memers

So, using those definitions you proposed, how would you write an example entry for the Trivia?

Because without a definitive criteria for the example write-up (like the ones we have in Creator's Pet or Fan-Preferred Couple), it would probably continue being misused with the nonsense we have right now.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:20:53 AM by Adept

I have supported a merger into Role Association for a very long time. RA is pretty much what HITG/HITV are being misused as.

And every single one of the possibilities mentioned on this page got voted down the last time this came up with Hey Its That Guy, IIRC.

It's not logical or rational, but just a word of warning in case history repeats itself.