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ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#101: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:30:17 PM

Wow, that was awesome. Though it brings beack a question I have had since season 1.

Why did Martin Chadwin try to kill our heroes? As far as we know, they only tried to kill him in self defense. So if he never came after them, he would be fine.

You lost!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#102: Mar 23rd 2018 at 12:09:57 AM

Martin was never the most stable individual.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#103: Mar 23rd 2018 at 2:31:31 AM

I'm caught up to Season 3 now. I think S3 has easily the best structure and pacing so far. S2 had a problem of meandering direction at times.

I had the question too. I haven't seen the new episode, but I started rewatching S1 to get my boyfriend into it (hes not really getting into it thus far) and I don't think they ever explain why The Beast is obsessed with killing Quinten.

I wonder if the books ever explain, though I understand the Books have a massive 'Adaptation EVERYTHING' in relation to the series. I suppose its possible its just that Jane Chatwin simply chose them to be her champions and thus the Beast wants to kill them, but why them and why now since Jane has been around for over a hundred years by 2016.

I also have another question. The fuck happened to Rupert Chatwin??? I know they show his grave in the background of Episode 1, but we also saw a Martin Chatwin grave at some point too. Of the Three Chatwins, he's mentioned the least. I get why Fillmore would drive a stake between Martin and Jane, but what of their elder brother?

With this relegation an episode or two ago that Rupert was gay and had a lover (ugh, the Bury Your Gays Trope again), it just got brought to my attention how little we've ever seen of him. Or why Martin never looked to him for help? Or at least love and care?

Oh! Another question but more What Happened To The Mouse? On this one... What happened to Plover? I remember he got freed from the dungeons and Q was all super disgusted about the whole... pedo rapist thing, but I don't think he ever came up after that scene. Not that I remember at least. Doesn't this make him kind of a Karma Houdini since, while he did get tortured for decades by his victim, his crimes never come up nor does he repent or double-down on what he did.

EDIT: Another one! The FIRST thing that opened S2 was Quentin giving his blood to some witch to heal his friends, only for them to be fine when he returned and he traded the blood for nothing. When is that going to come back? I expected that to be a major plot point somewhere, but its a Chekhov's gun that never fired.

edited 23rd Mar '18 8:24:19 AM by InkDagger

ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#104: Mar 23rd 2018 at 2:57:37 AM

Another one! The FIRST thing that opened S2 was Quentin giving his blood to some witch to heal his friends, only for them to be fine when he returned and he traded the blood for nothing. When is that going to come back? I expected that to be a major plot point somewhere, but its a Chekhov's gun that never fired.

Not yet. It was mentioned a couple of episodes ago, if I recall correctly.

You lost!
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#105: Mar 24th 2018 at 4:40:54 AM

Saw the new episode. Two new questions!

What happened to the original God Killing Knife? I remember Julia had it when they baited Marina for Reynard and I assumed Reynard took it when that was a failure, but it never came up again. Did Reynard take it back to... the Underworld or wherever Persephone took him?

Also, does this mean Original!Penny's story is over? His ending is joining a book club in the underworld? And the line about 'We could probably built him a clay golem body' means nothing? I mean, if it is, its ok for us since we know he's content but no one else knows that and, for all they know, he could be punished horrifically because he avoided his contract or at the very least be going insane thinking his friends will rescue him at some point.

Oh! Another question! Ok, so, 23!Eliot killed Margo by being too drunk for a spell and blowing half her head off. I got that. But what killed Eliot? We briefly saw him with far more blood (and a haunting Slasher Smile! Fuck I'm not sleeping!) but we never got much about what then had to have killed him. I suppose it doesn't matter but still.

Ok, so now I also have questions about how the time loops work. I just assumed that the timeline would cease to exist once our heros died and they needed to unfurl things. But Dean Fogg implies that he won't jump to the next loop until he dies. So, what happens for the Penny and Marina of the next loop who aren't going to die any time soon to jump into the restart of timeline 24? Or, what would happen if someone were to be stuck in a situation where they are incapable of being killed and thus could never jump into Timeline 24?

Or is this instead a situation where 23!Fogg (and all other timeline counterparts) remembers all the previous timelines, but are now independent in their own timelines and do actually perminantly die and Fogg is just assuming he'll wake up in the next timeline?

How did 23!Alice resurrect 23!Quentin anyway? I know she mentions that she was inspired by Q bringing Alice back, but Alice was a niffin and that's probably the only reason that worked anyway. 23!Q was described as torn limb from limb and even the metaphysical parts were torn away. If she can outright resurrect someone rather than simply transforming them... That sounds like something Julia should have taken notes on for later,

Tanrage Since: Jul, 2010
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#107: Mar 24th 2018 at 10:46:49 PM

Also, does this mean Original!Penny's story is over? His ending is joining a book club in the underworld? And the line about 'We could probably built him a clay golem body' means nothing? I mean, if it is, its ok for us since we know he's content but no one else knows that and, for all they know, he could be punished horrifically because he avoided his contract or at the very least be going insane thinking his friends will rescue him at some point.
Two episodes to go. Don't write him off just yet.

Oh! Another question! Ok, so, 23!Eliot killed Margo by being too drunk for a spell and blowing half her head off. I got that. But what killed Eliot? We briefly saw him with far more blood (and a haunting Slasher Smile! Fuck I'm not sleeping!) but we never got much about what then had to have killed him. I suppose it doesn't matter but still.
Suicide, perhaps.

Ok, so now I also have questions about how the time loops work. I just assumed that the timeline would cease to exist once our heros died and they needed to unfurl things. But Dean Fogg implies that he won't jump to the next loop until he dies. So, what happens for the Penny and Marina of the next loop who aren't going to die any time soon to jump into the restart of timeline 24? Or, what would happen if someone were to be stuck in a situation where they are incapable of being killed and thus could never jump into Timeline 24?
He doesn't "jump" into the loop. He simply remembers past iterations. Same goes for everyone else. These aren't the same people. They're distinct copies in different timelines. Migrating means jack in the grand scheme of things.

Or is this instead a situation where 23!Fogg (and all other timeline counterparts) remembers all the previous timelines, but are now independent in their own timelines and do actually perminantly die and Fogg is just assuming he'll wake up in the next timeline?
Remember that the loops are Jane artificially engineering scenarios to best defeat the Beast. This one is a bust. She made the next and the Dean keeps his memories. The timelines persist after she's done.

How did 23!Alice resurrect 23!Quentin anyway? I know she mentions that she was inspired by Q bringing Alice back, but Alice was a niffin and that's probably the only reason that worked anyway. 23!Q was described as torn limb from limb and even the metaphysical parts were torn away. If she can outright resurrect someone rather than simply transforming them... That sounds like something Julia should have taken notes on for later,
Not really worth taking notes on a botched technique. Sure, it worked, but it brought back a monster. As for how, probably a variation on the original with the help of whatever entity she traded her shade to for power.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#108: Mar 25th 2018 at 5:59:41 AM

Right. I understand the purpose of the loops and everything. And its obvious from Twenty Three that the timelines continue past Jane resetting the loop.

But Fogg's line "I have 17 more of these to go through" makes no sense in that light. If the timelines just keep going their eventual course independently, then no, he doesn't have 17 more to go through. He is dead. Goodbye.

That's why it gets so confusing. Its the difference between, say, imortality via resurrection or imortality via clones. In one, you actually just keep going past experiencing death. In the other, someone did actually die, just a clone also exists too.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#109: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:12:44 AM

You're overthinking it. Each Fogg remembers the loops that came before. Even if this particular Fogg dies, the next one is going to have his memories so there's no difference. Fogg 24 on up is going to remember this. To put it another way, if you were told you would be killed and cloned repeatedly, and each clone would have the memories of the past one, the death of your present self would be irrelevant because your next self would still be you.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#110: Mar 25th 2018 at 5:49:09 PM

No, because I am not going to continue on. I am going to die painfully and experience death. I won't see the next day. The clone will. Even if its an exact clone of me, I'd still see them as a separate entity.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#111: Mar 25th 2018 at 7:45:09 PM

Then you're missing the point. You treat them as distinct entities, the show does not.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#112: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:17:54 AM

And treating them as one in the same makes no sense. I'm sorry to be hanging on this, but its one of those things where the more I think about it, the more baffled I get.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#113: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:24:46 AM

While you are 100% correct...

People do this in real life.

See Altered Carbon and transhumanists and so on.

It's why people are all over Brain Uploading despite it being the Diet Coke of immortality.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:25:53 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#114: Mar 27th 2018 at 3:07:27 PM

Well, I'd say Altered Carbon is kind of a different animal since it implies that all life just exists in the "Stacks" rather than the body itself so its not exactly 'Full replica clones' but death still occurs and presumably people would still remember dying too. That's a more complex variation.

Engweri Since: May, 2016
#115: Mar 28th 2018 at 11:05:56 PM

This season has been bulletproof so far. The characters have evolved well, the storyline is tight, humor on point. Is anyone else they happy they dropped the school aspect of the show? It makes the whole tone of the show more adult and less YA fiction. I love a good romance, but I'm glad they cut down on the relationship drama from season 1, it was a weak point in my opinion. If magic comes back in the season finale I wonder if they'll have the cast go back to being students. Personally I hope not. Also, all hail King Margo!

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#116: Mar 29th 2018 at 3:12:34 PM

Honestly, I'm about to drop it.

I liked the relationships and school.

I also couldn't care less about Fillory.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#117: Mar 31st 2018 at 6:15:20 AM

I feel like the magic school aspects have kind of become a really strange artifact at this point, but Season 3 is also so far the best structured, developed, and paced Season so... I have mixed feelings.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#118: Apr 4th 2018 at 7:20:41 PM

Well, that was a downer. Library wins, monster is free, main cast save Alice remembers nothing. This is gonna be a long wait.

ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#119: Feb 7th 2019 at 1:27:04 PM

So, anybody still watching? Because season 4 has been on for a while, and so far I'm really into it.

You lost!
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#120: Feb 7th 2019 at 6:41:01 PM

Yep, hopefully they notch a decent win this season instead of getting screwed at the last second.

ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#121: Feb 8th 2019 at 12:08:43 AM

I am glad that Julia kept at least something from her arc last season, because I was genuinely mad when she gave up her powers. I know, if she kept them, the writers would have had to remove her from the main plot, because she would have been to powerful for every mundane conflict, but still. I don't like reset buttons.

Edited by ZheToralf on Feb 8th 2019 at 9:51:41 PM

You lost!
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#122: Feb 8th 2019 at 12:11:32 AM

Oh shit. Its back? I need to catch up.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#123: Jul 20th 2019 at 9:49:15 PM

SDCC season 5 sneak peek, spoilers for season 4 if u didn't see the finale.

ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
#124: Feb 13th 2020 at 4:14:17 PM

So, am I the only one here still watching? Because it sure feels like it. Man, talk about Needs More Love.

They did a really good job continuing they show without Q. It helps that they spend several episodes on the impact of his death. I love that they brought Marina back, always nice to see her. I am still not sure what the connection between the dark king and the fairies might be. While I can understand Julias descision, I would have sacrificed Penny for the greater good. Anyway, now that one Apocalypse is dealt with, it seems we are going to focus more on Fillory.

You lost!
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#125: Feb 13th 2020 at 5:36:16 PM

I don't have the channel it's on in Canada, so I get the blu-rays when they come out, so I'm usually super late on everything.


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