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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#251: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:12:48 PM

The stupid part is when bad works get a lot of notoriety because they're bad. Just look at The Room.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#252: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:15:10 PM

Or anything made by Uwe Boll, who likes to puff out his chest and challenge anyone who writes a negative review of his movies to a boxing match.

Point is, attempting to silence criticism is a time-honored tradition among IP-holders.

edited 24th Feb '16 1:16:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#253: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:16:03 PM

Unless they have actual martial arts training, then he backs down and says he was joking.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#254: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:17:15 PM

... Youtube NEEDS to add a provision that any videos categorized as "reviews" are immune to copy-write claims. It wouldn't fix everything, but you could make a case that Let's Plays count as reviews, fixing A LOT of the issues brought up on other channels.

edited 24th Feb '16 1:18:14 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#255: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:38:36 PM

A few people on Twitter that are a part of Channel Awesome have argued about how fair use isn't technically a defense or something, and there was a discussion going on between former CA contributors Kyle Kallgren and Lindsey Ellis and current CA contributor Lewis Lovhaug (AKA Linkara, who is a very close friend to Team Four Star and has cameo'd in their videos before) about some of this. Ellis has said that the problem isn't so much with fair use as with You Tube's system ID thing being shit (which Doug Walker has brought up a lot in his complaints towards You Tube), while Kallgren has been in agreement with some of the WTFU movement but thinks Doug Walker shouldn't be leading it because he doesn't understand it well enough.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#256: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:41:45 PM

Ellis is right but is also preaching to the choir because the problem isn't Fair Use. It is the Content ID system.

The federal government isn't pressing charges for copyright violation. This is 100% about You Tube, You Tube, and nothing but You Tube. It's a You Tube problem caused by You Tube systems for You Tube contributors.

Nobody involved in WTFU has been campaigning for the government to change Fair Use laws.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#257: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:43:29 PM

I think it's more that people have been defending their videos as falling under fair use when a few people are saying they don't. There was a series of tweets from a member of Channel Awesome (I forget his name, but he's also a member of Ellis's sister site Chez Apocalypse) that detailed some of what doesn't constitute as fair use.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/702323080765403136

This is the start of the series of tweets from the guy, named Dan Olson. He does a show called Folding Ideas.

edited 24th Feb '16 1:47:50 PM by AdricDePsycho

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#258: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:48:14 PM

Lots of people disputing his claims, too.

When people are having to defend videos that don't even use any borrowed content at all from the Content ID system, the problem isn't Fair Use. Like Snob's Midnight Screenings video that's just him and some friends sitting in a car talking about a movie they saw. No clips, no footage, yes copyright claim.

These claims are not happening because the Nostalgia Critic likes to use a clip of M. Bison going, "OF COURSE!" when world domination is proposed. They're happening to silence criticism.

edited 24th Feb '16 1:51:45 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#259: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:53:06 PM

That Dude in the Suede made a video that I had linked to earlier discussing this, but he and Kallgren agree that smarter minds who know about law should hear about this to reach an understanding on fair use and legal matters. Kallgren even said something about there being a civil rights lawyer who talked about WTFU, but I don't know if he specified who.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#260: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:57:03 PM

His video wasn't about the legal ramifications of Fair Use either. It was about the corporate reality that You Tube is under no obligation to bend to the demands of its consumer base. The company has the ability to tell its users, "I'm not changing my decision and if you have a problem, you can take your business somewhere else."

edited 24th Feb '16 1:58:06 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#261: Feb 24th 2016 at 2:00:54 PM

That is indeed a problem that has been brought up a lot. Another CA member, Nash from What the Fuck is Wrong With You, pointed out how impossible it would be to make a competitor to You Tube. It's a damn monopoly that they won't fix, unless people raise a loud enough voice to get them to fix it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all.

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Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#262: Feb 24th 2016 at 2:35:39 PM

It is and isn't YouTube's fault.

It likely has less to do with Google being money-grubbing lazy corporate overlords and more to do with not having enough manpower to thoroughly go over every single false DMCA claim. They probably also need a shit ton of cash and time to change the fundamentally broken Content ID system due to a shit load of coding and legal issues that even Google can't really handle.

So, you know, maybe we don't have to use YouTube as a convenient scapegoat to hate on and acknowledge that it's a more complicated issue than we think?

Just a thought.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#263: Feb 24th 2016 at 2:38:33 PM

The issue, I always thought, was less with You Tube and more to do with You Tube's system that is being abused by big companies.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#264: Feb 24th 2016 at 2:41:59 PM

Yes. But it's possible for the system to be abused by companies because the system contains no repercussions for false claims.

If I'm Universal Studios, I can pick 200 videos at random and flag them all for copyright infringement, and this will not negatively impact me in any way. The creators of those 200 videos will have to fight for 1-2 months to get their videos back on track. Afterward, I can pick another 200 videos and flag 'em all again.

There is no penalty for false flagging. If anything, it's encouraged by the ability to steal monetization. So the problem is that big companies are abusing the system, but that problem itself is influenced by the fact that the system is begging to be abused

edited 24th Feb '16 2:42:28 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#265: Feb 24th 2016 at 2:56:03 PM

[up][up][up]

You seem to have missed Jim's latest video on You Tube's copyright ID fuckery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9mTOq6mP2I

He specifically mentions Channel Awesome and Team Four Star's problems, and he does propose trying to change the laws a bit to fit more with how the internet has changed the state of entertainment and whatnot. He's incredibly pissed off at You Tube, though, and is blaming them not for being malicious, but for being lazy and cowardly about helping people.

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Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#266: Feb 24th 2016 at 6:45:07 PM

Here's a short version of the issues as I understand it, it's part law and part You Tube.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act, among other things, establishes a set of procedures for sites that host other people's content that, by following, the content host can absolve themselves of legal liability for people posting infringing stuff on their service. That is called the Safe Harbor provision. It requires that 1: the contest host not be in a position of editorial or creative responsibility for the contest and 2: they establish and follow procedures for handling DMCA claims and counter claims. Here's Vimeo's for illustration. DMCA claims and counter claims are supposed to be made under penalty of perjury but no case, to my knowledge, has ever successfully prosecuted a false claim. The content host is at no point responsible for verifying the accuracy of the claim; by acting on the claim they fill their obligation and maintain their Safe Harbor status. The law already favors the accuser; the burden of proof only comes into play if there is a counterclaim and the counterclaim is contested, at which point it would go to lawyers.

Youtube's systems compound the problem further by 1: putting most of the process in charge of automated systems, 2: having those systems require vastly more work from the defendant than the accuser, 3: making it near impossible for the accused to get in touch with a thinking human being unless they're big enough a presence to generate public outrage and 4: adding the monitization option as extra incentive for companies to exploit the system.

Point of comparison: Todd in the Shadows had trouble with a claim being filed against his stuff on Vimeo recently, but he got a quick response from an actual human being and had his stuff reinstated the same day with an apology. Vimeo, of course, is smaller and can have actual human beings involved more easily, but You Tube's system seriously needs some way to escalate an issue to a rational human who can make judgements a machine can't.

I also think that a Twitter/video awareness campaign isn't enough; I think a number of the big creators ought to band together and figure out how to get a meeting with Youtube executives in person, because the robots sure as heck won't listen or care. Maybe get the EFF involved. Maybe work the law angle but I think there's little hope of that happening soon given current political events.

As for changing the law, Google has stuck their neck and their money out for internet rights issues before (i.e. SOPA) and it would be nice if they did so again. It would be nice if we know exactly how much revenue the creators involved bring in to the site to know if they might be able to amass enough weight for shareholders to sit up and notice.

edited 24th Feb '16 6:49:40 PM by Elle

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#267: Feb 24th 2016 at 6:53:00 PM

Jim Sterling, I think, has done stuff with You Tube's copyright stuff. Maybe him, Channel Awesome, Chez Apocalypse, Team Four Star, and whoever else is having these kind of problems can meet with You Tube about this.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#268: Feb 24th 2016 at 7:10:17 PM

I mean, with dojinshi the artwork is usually original?

TFS literally uses Toei's original animation and footage.

So I think the dojin comparison sorta doesn't work? There IS a difference.

edited 24th Feb '16 7:15:27 PM by unnoun

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#269: Feb 25th 2016 at 7:52:04 AM

It's still the use of intellectual property that neither belongs to you nor that you have the license for.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#270: Feb 25th 2016 at 8:13:31 AM

The main difference here is how much the license holder cares.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#271: Feb 25th 2016 at 8:16:53 AM

[up] That.

Free marketing: awesome, let them keep doing it!

Negative reviews: shut that down immediately. How dare they speak out against our product?

In the world of entertainment, studios are the new kings and copyright law is their knightly code. If a violation benefits the kingdom, they let it pass without a word, but their knights are ready and willing to slay any who dare to speak against the king.

It's not about the parodies. It's not about the reaction gifs. It's not about the silly adaptations that pop up here or there. It's about the reviews. It's always been about the reviews, since before the internet, and it's still about the reviews.

You Tube is the latest battlefield in the ongoing war between critics of entertainment media and the creators who wish they would choke on their cleverness and die.

edited 25th Feb '16 8:22:54 AM by TobiasDrake

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#272: Feb 25th 2016 at 10:29:24 AM

Well,isn't the characters being abused in various ways also kinda bad?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#273: Feb 25th 2016 at 10:31:14 AM

Quoting myself from last page:

Porn makes people want to see your work. It can actually be some people's first exposure to the work and make them interested to see where it came from. Off the top of my head, there's two series I discovered through shipping fanart on Deviant Art by artists I liked.

But a negative review tells people that your work is crap and they shouldn't buy it.

Copyright law has nothing to do with protecting artists from having their characters and concepts used in ways they disapprove of and everything to do with protecting profits. Copyright claims are done for the money, not the art.

edited 25th Feb '16 10:32:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#274: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:11:45 PM

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#275: Feb 25th 2016 at 8:53:10 PM

In lighter news, Goku plays I Am Bread:

In which the game is so frustrating that Goku lets his inner "Renegade for Life" out.


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