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Misused: Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly

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rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#101: Oct 22nd 2019 at 8:04:40 AM

Let's finish the merge.

Keet cleanup
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#102: Oct 22nd 2019 at 12:25:54 PM

And unclock this while we're at it. I'll cut list the subpages now.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#103: Oct 22nd 2019 at 8:45:17 PM

[up]I hollered your post to see if the mods think the clock should be removed.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#104: Oct 22nd 2019 at 9:12:17 PM

Wow, yeah, clock's shut off now.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#105: Oct 23rd 2019 at 5:28:42 PM

Is there a reason Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly hasn't been made a redirect yet?

Also, what is to be done about music wicks to Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly? For example, all remaining wicks in the Film namespace are about soundtracks or in-universe bands. Should these be changed to Genre Mashup or left as is?


Edit: As for the unsorted Genre-Busting examples, here's my opinion on what on the list counts as legit Genre-Busting examples. Everything else is just Genre Mashup. This is a strict list and there are some borderline cases that haven't been included, but I'd be ok with keeping on Genre-Busting.

Edited by naturalironist on Oct 23rd 2019 at 8:42:28 AM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#106: Oct 23rd 2019 at 9:21:50 PM

[up]Since you asked, I made it a redirect.

Here's the Related page.

Edit: Dewicked Main/ wicks except for a ghost wick (asked about that in the Locked Pages thread). I'm going to take a break.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 23rd 2019 at 12:36:16 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#107: Mar 4th 2020 at 12:42:59 PM

I'm quoting for context, not because I expect a direct response from samaritan. Also this essay was brought to you by the letter coffee. Coffee is love; coffee is life.

From ~crazysamaritan (2016):

My point is that every Genre-Busting work was first a Genre Mashup work: taking elements existing in one genre and applying them in a new context. The distinction between the two is Trivia, specifically Follow the Leader. You cannot tell from the work itself if another work has copied that Genre Mashup, or if enough other works have copied that mix of genres enough to count as it's own genre.
... and...:
No specific part of the work can be used to cite genres as a trope; the work itself is the example, and so Genres belong in the description of the work itself, and Genre Mashup is no different.

Genres fit into the trope list the same way title tropes fit. Whereas the context of the title trope is the title itself, the context of the genre trope is the work itself. Watching the show or reading the book gives sufficient information for how the given work fits into the genre. That is, you could list the properties of the work in the example as sufficient context regarding its genre. Doing this for many works will allow you to group them into a specific genre.

Thus, Genre is a trope — an Aggregate Trope — and for that reason, so is Genre Mashup. But let me expand on that regarding Genre Mashup.

Watching shows in a given genre would give you sufficient knowledge of the elements of that genre. Applying this to two genres, you'd know at least the basic elements of those given genres. So when watching a show that mashes two genres, you should be able to identify the elements of those genres, and those elements would be sufficient context for how Genre Mashup applies — that is, the knowledge required to identify something as this trope is wholly contained within genres (or "works in aggregate").note 

This applies whether it's straight (i.e. two older genres mashed into one new) or inverted (i.e. one older genre generating two new). I admit that inversions here are theoretical and probably wouldn't happen, but it's important to include.

So now the question is what is Genre-Busting (as a trope)? It's when two genres are mashed to create a new genre. However, you cannot tell by the works alone that the "new" genre came before or after the other genres.note  It may seem that the older genres were in fact split off from the newer genre. The mashing would seem to be just that, Genre Mashup played straight or inverted. That is, it could look like a "genre splitting" which we would normally count as Genre Mashup but played with.

Thus, Genre-Busting requires knowledge you cannot get from merely reading the book or watching the show. You need RL context — namely historical context — to identify the concept as Genre-Busting.

Also, before I forget, Genre Killer is the inverse of Genre-Busting, where a work ends an existing genre (rather than a work starts a new one). Note that Genre Killer is already Trivia.

I think the clean-up effort of this TRS thread supports this claim regarding its status as Trivia, because there have already been people saying they need more information to figure out whether the work was Busting or Mashing. I am arguing that it is Mashing, and you need to know the previous and the new genres in order to label the work as Busting.

These are essentially the same concept, but I am arguing that they are different because one is a trope and another is Trivia.

Regarding Mix And Match, it seems like the JFF version of this.

TL;DR:

  1. Genre Mashup is an Aggregate Trope, similar to how Genre is an Aggregate Trope.
  2. You can tell whether a work "mashes" or "splits" a genre, merely from the works in the three genres.
  3. You cannot tell whether a work "busts" ("mashes") a genre or whether a work "kills" ("splits") a genre merely from the works in the given genres.
  4. However, you can tell whether a work busts/kills a genre given outside context, namely historical context.
  5. The inversion of Genre-Busting is Genre Killer, and Genre Killer is already labeled as Trivia.
  6. Thus, while Genre Mashup is a trope, Genre-Busting is Trivia.
  7. As an aside, I think Mix And Match is Just for Fun.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#108: Mar 23rd 2020 at 8:31:07 AM

Genres fit into the trope list the same way title tropes fit.
Four years later and I still disagree. The Western should be in the description of Bonanza and The Lone Ranger, not an entry in their trope lists.

I aggregate Genre differently; Genre isn't made from multiple works with similar thematic elements, it is made from using tropes with similar thematic elements. A work that is using 80% of the genre's tropes is still that genre. Taking The Western and adding in a ghost or Cosmic Horror turns it into a Weird West story.

Watching shows in a given genre would give you sufficient knowledge of the elements of that genre.
Each of those elements are a trope. Genres can share tropes, and creators are specifically advised to mix tropes from different genres to make their work stand out.

I admit that inversions here are theoretical and probably wouldn't happen, but it's important to include.
It ain't theoretical. Steampunk split into a multitude of subgenres and not all of them took elements from other genres. The Mystery Fiction genre spit out the Great Detective as well as Cozy Mystery stories. Fantasy gets classified into High Fantasy and Low Fantasy.

Each subgenre is characterized by the use of certain tropes and sometimes by the absence of others. They often incorporate setting tropes, but also plot tropes and Character Tropes.


You need RL context — namely historical context — to identify the concept as Genre-Busting.
This line I agree with, ~Water Blap; you need to know if other works have already mixed these specific tropes from two/more different genres before you can tell if the work counts as creating a new genre.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#109: Sep 10th 2020 at 1:11:00 AM

This thread has been at the bottom of the TRS page for almost a year, with sporadic input. Clocking to see if anyone's actually interested in doing anything.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Serac she/her (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
she/her
#110: Sep 10th 2020 at 9:04:07 AM

So since Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly is now a redirect to Genre Mashup, is there anything left to do here? Cleaning wicks, maybe?

Edited by Serac on Sep 10th 2020 at 11:04:14 AM

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#111: Sep 10th 2020 at 12:59:37 PM

Iirc wicks to Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly are acceptable if the example refers to music, otherwise they should be moved to Genre Mashup. So as per this post the film and music wicks are ok. Other namespaces still need to be cleaned.

The majority of Genre Mashup's wicks are to Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly which seems bad, but most of those are in the music namespace, so not sure how much wick cleanup can be done if we keep the redirect.

Edited by naturalironist on Sep 10th 2020 at 4:01:08 AM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#112: Oct 11th 2020 at 3:13:29 AM

Seems like there is no interest ... locking.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit MOD C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#113: May 2nd 2022 at 10:43:39 AM

Reopened due to how many wicks weren't cleaned up, and due to concerns raised in the TRS meta thread. Also, I think the examples on GenreMashup.Music may still need to be sorted because I think it still had some examples that belong under Genre-Busting instead.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 2nd 2022 at 12:43:56 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#115: May 4th 2022 at 7:57:20 AM

Nice! Locking as resolved.

Edited by MacronNotes on May 4th 2022 at 10:57:58 AM

Macron's notes
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29th Jul '16 3:18:15 AM

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What is the best way forward to sort out the issue with Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly?

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