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Deadlock Clock: Jan 13th 2017 at 11:59:00 PM
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#26: Feb 3rd 2016 at 1:10:18 PM

Well it would be probably be a trivia trope that would require physical wiki pages like Awesome Games Done Quick or websites or guides like http://fourjobfiesta.com/ that could become wiki pages.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#27: Feb 4th 2016 at 1:05:59 PM

I like the three-way split proposed in post 21. I'd suggest Played Imposed Challenge for the second trope.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#28: Feb 5th 2016 at 10:00:13 AM

I don't like the arbitrary narrowing proposed in 23. I think those pages should be soft-split instead.

HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#30: Feb 5th 2016 at 11:32:51 AM

Soft splits are almost universally a bad idea. Either something is a separate trope, so deserves its own page, or it isn't, so examples can spell out the context.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#31: Feb 5th 2016 at 12:08:18 PM

[up]That's a general rule with some notable exceptions. "In-Universe Examples" seems like a legitimate and fairly common soft-split category.

DiamondWeapon Since: Jan, 2001
#32: Feb 6th 2016 at 9:22:38 AM

I'd say that "a person doing a particular task making it more challenging for themselves with some self-imposed rules", is the same trope whether the task in question is a video game or something else.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#33: Feb 6th 2016 at 9:32:02 AM

It is different if it's a character versus a Real Life person.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#34: Jun 20th 2016 at 11:10:13 PM

Bump since this is pretty much the only TRS thread I care about.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#35: Jun 22nd 2016 at 6:47:06 PM

I think Self Imposed Challenge is an audience reaction. (These still allow in universe examples and invoked examples)

Extra Challenge would be an objective trope that would get all the current cases of Self Imposed Challenge that have the slightest hint of support in game. Like the conducts in Nethack.

I think you should create a crowner with the various options.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#36: Jun 22nd 2016 at 11:18:49 PM

Yeah, I can think of a lot of games where there are optional objectives that give you extras.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#37: Jun 25th 2016 at 1:22:37 PM

[up][up]How many pages is this crowner going to apply to? Supertropes aren't simple to split.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#38: Jun 25th 2016 at 1:32:04 PM

I don't see the two tropes in a parent/child relationship. They are sister tropes. And I was not the first to name these two, This split was identified on the last page.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#39: Jun 30th 2016 at 9:27:43 PM

We still have to account for the other challenge tropes like Low-Level Run.

I was in the middle of making a crowner, but the aforementioned issue with the other challenge tropes stumped me on options since we didn't really discuss those.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#40: Jun 30th 2016 at 9:42:14 PM

I'm not sure identifying specific subtropes of these two tropes is a good idea. Someone can do that, and has, but I think that all the various challenge types would be either fully children of Self-Imposed Challenge, or a type of In Game Challenge that is sometimes an Extra Challenge.

A Speed Run, for example, is a Self Imposed Challenge.

A Time Trial, for example, may be either a In Game Challenge if necessary for completion, or an Extra Challenge if not.

EDIT: No, that is wrong. Subtropes are probably all defined by the type of challenge they are, and may either be self imposed or game tracked.

edited 30th Jun '16 9:47:15 PM by war877

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#41: Jul 1st 2016 at 1:15:41 AM

I still think that my outline in post 24 is the way we should go

Some though like Solo-Character Run do not have an ingame example listed so they are a problem.

Plus an Optional Objective trope for quests which have an Optional Objective like this.

Player Imposed challenges are just another form of troper tales and are not allowed.

Crowner?

edited 1st Jul '16 1:23:49 AM by Memers

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#43: Jul 1st 2016 at 1:45:54 AM

My proposal is potentially identical to that except it does not identify a difference between Self Imposed Challenge and Community Challenge. And for a good reason, more or less. Tropes are usually about works. When talking about stuff that occurs outside of a work, we need to be careful. As far as the work goes, there is no difference between a Self Imposed Challenge and a Community Challenge.

The major differences are that I used a different name for Skill Challenge and restricted it only to examples that were not covered by Self Imposed Challenge. But setting it as a supertrope to Self Imposed challenge is effectively the same.

EDIT: Wait. You set it as a sister trope as well... But that makes Speedrun and all the other subtropes ingame only tropes as well. So What does that mean for Speedruns that are Self Imposed?

edited 1st Jul '16 1:49:56 AM by war877

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#44: Jul 1st 2016 at 4:49:45 AM

Anything Self Imposed by a player for lutz is something beyond the scope of the site akin to the long cut Troper Tales.

The Skill Challenge subtropes should be all In-Universe objectives.

Like say for Speed Run some examples would be

  • Hunie Pop has an achievement to beat the game in 18 in-game days
  • Final Fantasy IX requires you to get to almost the final boss room in 10 hours to receive the Excalibur II, the strongest weapon in the game.

They are not self imposed as the game itself is challenging you to pull it off.

Community challenge would be websites and community organized efforts to run a challenge, it would be a sister trope to Skill Challenge but it has nothing to do with the games itself. An objective site, FAQ, TV Tropes page, guide or wiki is needed to be linked to to be an example. Examples being

edited 1st Jul '16 6:01:11 AM by Memers

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#45: Jul 1st 2016 at 2:05:54 PM

Troper tales is stories tropers told about themselves. A Speedrun is an audience reaction trope. It is a way the game is played. If an example of a specific speedrun is provided, that is no good.

Instead, games should be talked about in terms of attracting speedrunners and speedruns, and any science done on how fast it is possible.

The game may or may not support this by listing playthrough time at the end of the game on a stats page.

edited 1st Jul '16 2:08:06 PM by war877

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46: Jul 1st 2016 at 8:21:02 PM

No it's not even an audience reaction, the examples are 'this game can be beaten in .35 seconds because of this glitch, here see' and so on. It is just a personal experience, not a trope.

The only way is if a game builds a challenge objective and gives something such as a message, achievement, reward etc.

A person awhile back made the MMO news when he got 100% complete in World Of Warcraft, every achievement, mount, pet etc. was there anything that happened in the game itself for doing that? Nope. It's the same thing for speed running.

edited 1st Jul '16 8:22:15 PM by Memers

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#47: Jul 1st 2016 at 9:08:02 PM

[up]I'll go along with that. I think there is a distinction, but it is not worth fighting over. Let's get rid of non-community challenge stuff.

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#48: Jul 7th 2016 at 8:47:33 PM

I still don't think splitting off "Community Challenge" from the subtropes makes logical sense, and the focus on "websites and community organized efforts" also seems a bit presentist: it wouldn't exactly cover, say, the old Hudson Soft Caravan exhibitions, which were often accompanied by Limited Special Collector's Ultimate Edition rereleases of games that didn't implement the appropriate challenge modes in the original release, or the Super Mario Bros. 3 event shown in The Wizard.

We also have many trope pages for Lets Plays, as well as Awesome Games Done Quick.

edited 7th Jul '16 8:50:07 PM by Prfnoff

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#49: Jul 8th 2016 at 4:08:02 PM

The Youtube streaming community would be that, it is also extremely competitive, as would Awesome Games Done Quick and organized tournaments like that seen in The Wizard.

The big thing is random X person is not and can not be an example as those are personal experiences. Also broad generalizations are not examples.

Examples written like

  • X Game is popular to be a Stealth Run, the game doesn't encourage it or anything and in ways its fights you, here are some tips.
  • Y Game can be ran in an hour if you try.
are not what we are here for.

edited 8th Jul '16 4:09:23 PM by Memers

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#50: Jul 8th 2016 at 4:23:27 PM

Something that might be worth noting is if there's an achievement for running it under a certain time. That can be a more objective not troper tale example. I can think of several games like that.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

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