Outside of Memers posting here, I can't find anything about it needing contact, so I would think it wouldn't.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickSauron and Saruman's manipulations of the situation are offscreen. There was an onscreen manipulation by Saruman added to the Peter Jackson version of the trilogy; crossing over the mountains.
The Witch of the West, in contrast, is shown causing each problem, and sometimes physically present with the protagonists.
- "You killed my sister!"
- "How about a little fire, Scarecrow?"
- "Poppies will make you sle~ep."
- "Bring me Dorothy!"
- "Fly, my pretties, fly!"
- "You'll never leave, not until you give me those Ruby Slippers!"
- "I'm melting!"
edited 1st Feb '16 6:47:03 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I don't think it's not the interactions with the protagonist that's the important part as much as it is the play for the peanut gallery (a.k.a. audience) that's what makes it.
Check out my fanfiction!That's better criteria. The villain must interact on screen. Not just be mentioned by other characters as the force behind them.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickHow's this, then?
In other words, they're the antagonist with the most screen time, the one that the audience is most familiar with as a character. This is the origin of the trope name, which comes from theater terminology used as far back as the 1800s. The Heavy is a big role for an actor, sometimes the biggest role in the work, eclipsing even the main character. This means that the Heavy tends to have the most lines, and therefore the heaviest script.
In terms of story role, the Heavy can be anything from an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain all the way up to the Big Bad, as long as they're the ones out front and center, personally opposing the heroes rather than staying in the shadows and working in the background. The Heavy is often The Dragon, as keeping the Big Bad out of the limelight makes them more mysterious, and thus scarier; this also allows for a Non-Action Big Bad, with the Heavy providing the muscle. However, the Heavy is an antagonist trope, not a villain trope, so they can be a Hero Antagonist standing in the way of a Villain Protagonist just as easily.
Not to be confused with the band of the same name, or the Heavy Weapons Guy.
It's better.
Check out my fanfiction!I noticed two examples that have conflicting ideas of what this trope is.
- Snowpiercer: Neither Wilford nor Mason are fighters so Franco serves as the main physical threat of the movie.
This says nothing about him driving the plot.
- G.I. Joe Film Series: In Retaliation, while Cobra Commander is the Big Bad, Zartan is the most prominent antagonist in the film and he does more to set Cobra's evil plan in motion.
Opposite problem, describes how he drives the plot, but nothing about physical capabilities which I know are none.
edited 2nd Aug '16 6:52:19 AM by randomtroper89
Physical capabilities are irrelevant. They need to be physically present on the stage or in front of the camera, but they don't need to be fighters of any kind.
The first example doesn't describe the trope at all, while the second is correct.
Check out my fanfiction!Are we ready to swap out the definition for post #56, or is there more we want to adjust? I'm satisfied with the post.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I think it might be good to start with something like: "In theatre jargon, the Heavy is..." just to emphasize the fact that this is a standard technical term, and not just one of those things we made up. That might encourage people to take a little more care when looking at the definition.
People like to feel like insiders.
Otherwise, it looks good to me.
eta: fixed typo
edited 28th Dec '16 7:28:30 PM by Xtifr
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.The definition has been swapped out, with a few tweak like suggested. Onto clean-up now?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Sure. Starred.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI feel like the wick cleaning hasn't started: there's 1,641 wicks, including over 100 for a redirect.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Regarding the new description, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but there is an inconsistency in the writeup, given that direct and frequent interaction between the protagonist and the heavy isn't required:
Paragraph 1: "They're who the protagonist confronts most directly and most often"
Paragraph 2: "they're the antagonist with the most screen time, the one that the audience is most familiar with as a character"
Paragraph 3: "personally opposing the heroes"
So a proposed change:
Those suggestions look good to me.
I'll make sure to check and correct every wick to The Villain Makes the Plot tonight.
edit: while wick checking, I discovered an old TRS was responsible for the redirect.
edited 6th Jan '18 4:40:55 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Trying to touch base since it's pending final for several months. Are we done, or is there unfinished business?
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportProbably unfinished business, as I forgot I even wrote that previous post. I'll try to focus on checking these wicks again.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I updated the description and started going through the wicks again (eliminating the redirect).
EDIT: Cleaned out the redirect (1 ghost wick) and checked all of Main/A pages.
Cleaned out the Pro Wrestling pages.
Edited by crazysamaritan on Jan 17th 2020 at 1:19:55 PM
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I did another dozen or so wicks, under 2600 for now.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.This has been pending work for four years. Clocking to see if anyone is actually interested in doing all the work.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanOK, evidently the answer is "nobody". Closing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
That I disagree with, I think it needs the contact. The Heavy needs to do stuff like literally chase and shoot at the heroes, kidnap and torture one, bring the heroes to the big bad, have the duel with the hero, trap the heroes then gloat. Bad guy stuff like that.
Not being present but manipulating the situation like The Wicked Witch, Lord Of The Rings' Saruman or Ni No Kuni's White Witch is something different.
edited 31st Jan '16 2:22:50 PM by Memers