Mary Sue and Subtropes Wick Cleanup

I think changing it over to the alternate title (Straw Utopia) might be prudent.

Urgh, no. The strawman tropes don't compare to the Mary Sue family, but they're kind of a mess themselves. I don't think we want to expand them at all.

Straw Utopia also suggests to me a False Utopia, one that is set up to be shown as wrong.

I removed the Sue wicks from My Immortal because:

1. the examples did not contain sufficient context to explain how they were an example (violates Zero-Context Example)
2. the examples were all indented under Mary Sue (violates Example Indentation in Trope Lists)
3. Multiple bullets are used for single sentences and bullets are used to comment on Not An Example tropes (violating Conversation in the Main Page)

Also, Poe's Law seems to apply to that work.

edited 4th Jan '16 8:53:23 AM by crazysamaritan

Due to the recent dustup on ATT, I second Mary Sue Topia being flame bait

If recent means yesterday and ATT means ask the tropers, that "dust up" wasn't anything that resembled a flame war.

I could see it being Flame Bait either way ("Utopia that works because everyone supports the moral the author is trying to preach/is perfect" sounds like something begging for differing opinions and justifying edits), but I don't think "Mary Sue" is quite the right term there either.

What do I do with a Base Breaker entry that relies on Villain Sue?

From YMMV.RWBY

• As of the end of Volume 3 Cinder Fall may have just usurped Adam as the most controversial character in RWBY introduced thus far (and that is saying something). Cinder is either an interesting creepy villain who wins a lot of her battles by being a Dangerously Genre-Savvy Chessmaster. OR you consider her to be a Invincible Villain Sue who continuously wins every gambit she starts and makes the heroes look like chumps. The fact that, until the Volume 3 finale Cinder succeeds in every gambit she uses and was responsible for the deaths of two beloved characters has not dulled these flames at all.

Badly written examples aside, I feel like outright deletion is the best option here. It's still Flame Bait.

edited 14th Feb '16 11:14:13 PM by Karxrida

I'd say delete unless there's proof that this covers the entire fanbase, rather than isolated pockets of discussions.

Did the thing.

Are we still looking at this - because Mary Sue is something I agree with Fighteer on. It's just a way to Complain about a character you don't like.

edited 6th May '16 4:37:07 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

The cleanup is still happening, we're just an easily-distracted community.

I did a quick wick check, and there's 2,270 left.

There's a lot of splurge and opinions in the description of the Mary Sue. It's very vauge on just what a Sue is, especially since there's almost no such thing as being a general Sue, so if that was cut down to the facts, perhaps it would help.

Also, perhaps it should be noted that for a character to be a Mary Sue doesn't mean you're not allowed to like them. Superman kind of is completely invincible, so to make up for that a lot of his stories are about the trouble he has fitting in and hiding his identity and not going crazy.

I think we should focus on removing wicks before tackling the (honestly probably futile) task of trying to redefine this.

By the way, wick count is still over 2,000.

Bumping this up to note that I've transplanted Suetiful All Along to the Flame Bait index and it needs a-purgin'.

Edit: I've removed most of the wicks from work articles and subpages. There are a lot of other miscellaneous wicks that may need some extra looking at.

edited 5th Jul '17 7:34:03 AM by Fighteer

I looked at the relateds for Mary Sue, and found: Fanfic.A Angle Is With Us:

Since Copycat Sue is Flame Bait, shouldn't it be marked with a flame, like how YMMV is marked with scales? Or did that never work?

Also, it should be removed, right?

Yes, it should be removed. The Flame Bait icon thing is something we'll have completely fixed in the new site release, whenever that happens.

So, wiping all review bits from that fic's description is okay?

Like how the plot is described as "half-hearted"?

So, what governs if the flame and scales appear? They appear on DarthWiki.The Protector The Seven Crystals, for me.

Is this labelling of some characters as Sues, okay? 'Cause calling Bella Swan, one, isn't In-Universe? And Sailor Earth as Copycat is Flame Bait, right?

Fanfic.Hagrid And The Skoolgurlz:

edited 5th May '18 7:42:12 PM by Malady

Can't speak for the rest of your post.

Aren't in-universe Mary Sues covered by the Her Code Name Was "Mary Sue" trope?

- I thought those potholes were references to real characters, but no... They actually defined themselves by their Sue-types.

Chapter 7:

Chapter 8:

edited 13th May '18 4:54:20 PM by Malady

Any reason Einstein Sue isn't under Flame Bait like the rest of the Sue tropes? Did we just miss it?

Probably an oversight. Might as well correct it.

Edit: done

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:27:35 AM

Mary Sue was added to Star Wars – Rey. I removed it once with a note that it's considered Flame Bait and not to be added to Work and Character pages, but the original poster simply readded it again without comment. I'm trying to reach out to them to discuss but there's no response yet.

Took care of that.