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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#5726: Jan 13th 2016 at 11:59:17 AM

When the TPM and AOTC came out, people wouldn't believe that Darth Sidious and Palaptine were the same person because it was too obvious.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure that almost everyone realized they were the same person from the very beginning. It was obvious, yes, but everyone knew Palpatine was the bad guy. And Darth Sidious looked exactly like the Emperor.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#5727: Jan 13th 2016 at 11:59:33 AM

The resistance isn't against the idea that the villain makes the plot, so much as the idea that the writers would genuinely be willing to have the Skywalker line end in darkness and villainy after making such a fuss of Luke redeeming Vader.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that almost everyone realized they were the same person from the very beginning. It was obvious, yes, but everyone knew Palpatine was the bad guy. And Darth Sidious looked exactly like the Emperor.

A lot of casual filmgoers had no idea Palpatine was the bad guy coming out of Phantom Menace.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:00:37 PM by TobiasDrake

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#5728: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:00:22 PM

@alliterator Like Daisy Ridley literally says that you'll know who her parentage by the end of the film. It's pointing one way.

I forgot who it was but someone convinced JJ Abrams to do a lot of not telling so the audience could figure it out themselves.

Also one of my problems with TFA. They under-explained a lot of stuff so they could keep more of the magic apparently.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#5729: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:00:24 PM

There's always the possibility that Kylo Ren has a child that carries on the line after he dies. Or Kylo Ren somehow redeems himself.

Like Daisy Ridley literally says that you'll know who her parentage by the end of the film. It's pointing one way.
Link?

edited 13th Jan '16 12:01:09 PM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#5730: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:00:44 PM

Kylo could have a kid.

Or, y'know, maybe someone could adopt and it wouldn't invalidate their familial connection to the Skywalkers????

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#5731: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:01:41 PM

wild mass guessLuke is Rey's father. He adopts her in-between movies.wild mass guess

edited 13th Jan '16 12:01:49 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#5732: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:02:14 PM

wild mass guessSurprise twist: Rey is actually Luke's father.wild mass guess

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#5733: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:02:14 PM

A lot of audiences in my theatre were convinced throughout the movie that Rey was Han's daughter.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5734: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:02:26 PM

The story being about the Skywalkers doesn't have to mean Skywalkers by blood.

And, again, all life in the universe is a Skywalker, on Anakin's father's side.

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Lost in Space
#5735: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:02:40 PM

@Wackd: You mean the way that Luke and Leia were adopted?

If Force-powers are blood-inherited in the Skywalker line, then we can take Rey's membership in that clan as a default assumption, to be disproven later if the filmmakers feel like taking us down that path. Note all the elaborate justifications people have to come up with for anything else.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:02:54 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#5736: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:02:46 PM

Yeah "Rey is a Skywalker because she comes to see Luke as a dad and he sees her as a daughter" is my headcanon of choice at the moment.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Locoman Since: Nov, 2010
#5737: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:03:18 PM

I kind of like the idea that Rey is Luke's adopted daughter, making her an honorary Skywalker.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5738: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:05:08 PM

To me, the only thing that causes any doubt at all about Rey being a Skywalker is that Han and Leia don't act as if they ever had a second child, nor does anyone mention anything about Luke ever being married or at least having a lover. That particular mystery is what intrigues me the most.

wild mass guessHey, maybe it's Phasma. 'Twould provide a reason for Luke to have wanted to conceal the fact.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:06:20 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
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#5739: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:05:37 PM

Kylo could have a kid.

That would just be an Author's Saving Throw for the mistake of ruining Vader's redemption, cast a few movies down the line. The better solution is to not make the mistake in the first place.

Or, y'know, maybe someone could adopt and it wouldn't invalidate their familial connection to the Skywalkers????

This feels like the heart of the issue. I think people are weirdly resistant to the idea of Rey being Luke's daughter because they want this trilogy to be about the virtues of adoption. To champion the cause that blood relation is not required for a family connection. To be the film that proves that adopted parents are just as good of parents as biological ones if not better.

Which, I mean, that's a fine cause. A great cause. But you picked a weird movie for it. Bloodline has been a key element of this franchise since the moment Vader said the iconic words, "I am your father." He wasn't talking about adoption, and Luke didn't get his strong Force-Sensitivity from being adopted and raised by Anakin's loving parental guidance.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:06:49 PM by TobiasDrake

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#5740: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:06:11 PM

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that almost everyone realized they were the same person from the very beginning. It was obvious, yes, but everyone knew Palpatine was the bad guy. And Darth Sidious looked exactly like the Emperor.

Yep. I quoted it like a week or two ago on one of the SW threads. The point is that people can be super dense about obvious clues. "Palpatine actually believes in democracy not like this Sidious guy : )"

You're trying to create a twist that won't have any impact. If she's Rey Random then there won't be any dramatic reveal. You'd just disappoint the main audience. Rey Solo got thrown out the door. Rey Kenobi involves a lot more convoluted explaining ever would need to and lacks impact.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5741: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:07:22 PM

It's been pointed out that the Emperor was never addressed as "Palpatine" in the OT, nor "Darth Sidious". Thus, people who had only ever seen the films might be excused for missing that key plot point at first.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:08:10 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#5742: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:07:26 PM

People are weirdly resistant to the idea that the villain of a movie also constitutes what it's about.

No we aren't. Out position has always been that Rey and Kylo were both important to the Skywalker family bloodline idea.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#5743: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:07:39 PM

What if she's Rey Fisto or Rey Windu or Rey Jinn?

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#5744: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:07:49 PM

How about Luke discovered a method of baptism with blood to grant the Skywalker powers to others?

So she could be adopted and literally have the blood of the Skywalkers.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#5745: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:08:51 PM

One of the main themes of Star Wars is legacy. In the end, it won't really matter who Rey's parents are, only who she is and what she does.

I love how the father twist was in TESB. It adds a great deal to Luke and Anakin's characters.

It might be nice to have an inversion of this in a future film, since Star Wars Ring Theory and shit.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#5746: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:08:59 PM

This feels like the heart of the issue. I think people are weirdly resistant to the idea of Rey being Luke's daughter because they want this trilogy to be about the virtues of adoption. To champion the cause that blood relation is not required for a family connection. To be the film that proves that adopted parents are just as good of parents as biological ones if not better.

Which, I mean, that's a fine cause. A great cause. But you picked a weird movie for it. Bloodline has been a key element of this franchise since the moment Vader said the iconic words, "I am your father." He wasn't talking about adoption.

I dunno, man. You could just as easily argue that "white people being fucking everywhere" is a key element of the franchise, or "women are maybe one in every fifty people" is a key element, or "Stormtroopers are disposable grunts with no interiority" is a key element, or "Tatooine being eternally relevant"...you get my meaning.

I think The Force Awakens being as progressive as it is makes it really easy to root for the franchise to keep pushing in that direction and try to shed as much regressive bullshit from the previous films as possible.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:09:53 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#5747: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:09:04 PM

Maybe Harmonic Convergence granted Force powers to a bunch of random people, and Rey's one of them.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5748: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:09:06 PM

@Cassidy: That is really, really silly. Not in terms of coolness factor, or appeal to adoption advocates (I adopted my son, so don't get on my case over this.), but because of all the extraneous explanations it would require.

@Wackd: Don't confuse your social agenda with the filmmakers'. Serious, serious error.

edited 13th Jan '16 12:10:04 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#5749: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:09:35 PM

I'm just saying that Rey Jinn is more likely that Rey Kenobi.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#5750: Jan 13th 2016 at 12:10:49 PM

Kylo Ren is one of the greatest, best realised villains I've seen in modern Sci Fi.


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