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Jessica Jones

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#2076: Jul 20th 2019 at 12:36:51 PM

Well, Trish's powers are a bit better than that. She clearly has some small measure of enhanced strength, super agility, super durability, and based on what she did to Salinger, her fingernails seem to function as claws.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2019 at 12:37:07 PM

ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#2077: Jul 20th 2019 at 12:50:24 PM

I would guess that the definition of "enhanced" includes "has access to unusual technological enhancements"; Falcon's wing-suit would thus qualify him, while Fisk has no such thing.

Is such a definition a good idea? That does indeed sound like a good topic for a series (or perhaps a movie).

My Games and Asset Packs
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#2078: Jul 20th 2019 at 12:57:00 PM

She clearly has some small measure of enhanced strength, super agility, super durability, and based on what she did to Salinger, her fingernails seem to function as claws.

[up] I recall that when Trish engaged the homophobes who were beating up Malcolm in season 2 episode 8, she clawed one of their faces in a similar way, and she wasn't enhanced at that time (she was merely taking Simpson's inhaler, but that doesn't really count as "enhanced").

Okey Dokey!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#2079: Jul 20th 2019 at 1:24:33 PM

The inhaler made her stronger, so yeah, that was enhanced, if only temporarily.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#2080: Jul 20th 2019 at 9:52:07 PM

Nearing the end of the first season. Welp, this just keeps getting darker and darker, doesn't it. I like this. I like this quite a bit.

Kilgrave...boy howdy is this guy a topical villain. I can imagine many a victim of an abusive household/relationship clenching their fists at this guy and wanting him to get what he deserves. And similar to the likes of Ego, it's David Tennant of all people playing one of the most utterly monstrous, despicable villains in the whole MCU.

It helps that I've spent over three years living with an abusive stepdad, seeing my mom frequently taking his verbal and physical abuse. I see shades of him in Kilgrave, I really do.

And yes, I've spoiled the ending of the season for myself. I guess watching the rest of it will help as buildup to make it even more cathartic to witness.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Jul 20th 2019 at 9:54:27 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#2081: Jul 26th 2019 at 10:02:43 AM

I think it was intentional that Salinger’s ideology makes no sense.

All he talks about is how superpowered people got their powers and didn’t have to work for them, but honestly though powers come with a price for literally every character in Jessica Jones. Jessica loses her entire family because of them, ultimately get raped by Kilgrave because he sees her as special (powerful). Kilgrave was experimented on as a kid which leads him to become a deranged sociopath. Erik’s power put away his asshole father at the cost of mother’s life and his sister trust. Not to mention the migraines and severe headaches he gets. Oh, and he uses his powers to blackmail people to feed his gambling addiction. Trish loses her mother and for a time her sister for her powers. Like it’s not just a walk in the park because you have powers; honestly it’s like a target is put on your back for the universe to shit on.

And for all Sallinger's talk about lack of privilege and having to earn everything for himself, he sure seems to be oblivious to his own privilege. Wouldn’t it have been a CMoA if someone threw it in his face? I mean, he, a white man, gets to walk free after kidnapping, torturing and killing seven innocent people. Trish Walker, a woman, is imprisoned without due process for far lesser offenses. Jessica Jones, also a woman, is treated with suspicion and distrust for speaking out against Sallinger.note  Luke Cage, a black man, was imprisoned for a crime he didn’t commit. But sure, they are the privileged cheaters, right, Greg? Damn, white male privilege would've made a great theme.

And while we’re at it, we were robbed of a final showdown between Trish and Sallinger. Because it was another great opportunity to oppose his views. Something like this: Trish, a woman with superpowers, is called “a cheater” and then she fires back that she worked her ass off for her abilities. But no, apparently vilifying a woman with powers is way more important than making a commentary. Because nothing is scarier than a woman willing to fight and unafraid of violence. Who does she think she is, the Punisher, Archangel or Rorschach? Silly girl, as if a woman would ever be allowed to take the role of a violent vigilante which clearly belongs to male protags!

Okey Dokey!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2082: Jul 26th 2019 at 12:55:30 PM

We get it, you were dissatisfied with Trish's handling. You don't need to constantly update this thread with long, ranting walls of text.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#2083: Jul 26th 2019 at 1:09:23 PM

[up][up]The ending of Jessica Jones was clearly meant to be a Reality Ensues response to that kind of murderous vigilantism, nothing to do with Trish being a woman.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2084: Jul 26th 2019 at 2:18:34 PM

Jessica Jones has a serious issue that it doesn't work in the MCU.

Like when she tried to tell Iron Fist his powers weren't inspired by Ki.

It doesn't make her look smart or edgy.

Quite the opposite.

Ditto the fact Trish gets a Reality Ensues while Jessica herself doesn't.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#2085: Jul 26th 2019 at 2:23:15 PM

Jessica has had enough Reality Ensues moments to last a lifetime. They don't arrest her because she also does a lot of good. Trish did not.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2086: Jul 26th 2019 at 2:28:34 PM

That's a stunning display of Protagonist-Centered Morality.

Mind you, I actively reject that there's any difference between the two or that Trish isn't a good person.

Which means that much like Daenerys, the show flat out didn't sell me their Face–Heel Turn at all.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#2087: Jul 26th 2019 at 3:22:23 PM

I mean the heinousness of how she got powers in the first place was already enough to sell me on Trish is a tippy toe from a slippery slope.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#2088: Jul 26th 2019 at 4:07:41 PM

That's a stunning display of Protagonist-Centered Morality.
Uh, no. Jessica only kills when she's forced or when it's in self defense. Trish killed because she wanted to kill. She killed people who were defenseless. Even if they were criminals.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2089: Jul 26th 2019 at 4:48:29 PM

And I mean, at first, they were both accidents, but by the second one, she was starting to get used to it.

Sallinger, scum ball though he was, and as much as he deserved to die, was already beaten. They had him. He wasn't going to weasel his way out of this situation. Killing him at that point did more harm to Trish herself than anything else.

Killing him actually accomplished nothing at all. They'd already won and ensured he would pay for killing Dorothy. All Trish did was hurt herself.

One Strip! One Strip!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2090: Jul 26th 2019 at 4:51:04 PM

Killing a serial killer that killed your mother is somehow heinous because they were locked up.

...

Seriously?

That's some Judge Dredd levels of apathy to human feelings.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 26th 2019 at 4:51:56 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#2091: Jul 26th 2019 at 4:57:28 PM

Killing a serial killer that killed your mother is somehow heinous because they were locked up.
Yes. If you kill someone who is locked up, it's heinous.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 26th 2019 at 4:57:41 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2092: Jul 26th 2019 at 5:39:05 PM

Killing criminals who have already been apprehended is absolutely murder, and absolutely the kind of thing people get condemned - and for good reason. Having suffered at the hands of that person doesn’t make it any less murder.

There’s a reason the guy who shot Lee Harvey Oswald went to jail. Or that doing so in wartime is considered a war crime.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 26th 2019 at 5:40:07 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2093: Jul 26th 2019 at 8:37:43 PM

There was no point.

He'd lost. He was going to jail, not only for Dorothy's murder, but all the other ones he'd performed.

He wasn't going to weasel out of it! They'd beaten him.

What was solved by Trish killing him? She certainly didn't make her life better.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve it; I can't even say I blame her for doing it (cause a lot of people if they could do what Trish could do would have done exactly what she did). I can say however that she ruined herself when she did it.

She let Sallinger destroy her in that moment.

One Strip! One Strip!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#2094: Jul 26th 2019 at 9:16:01 PM

I mean, that's also the point the show was trying to make: at that point, Trish was the bad guy.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2095: Jul 26th 2019 at 11:46:54 PM

I'm just saying that if you were on a jury and sent someone who killed their mother's killer, who was a serial killer, to jail is a crime.

Like kidnapping and torture.

Some crimes are not crimes and if you punish the perpetrators, you're in the moral wrong.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 26th 2019 at 11:48:59 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2096: Jul 26th 2019 at 11:57:23 PM

Subjective. And clearly the showrunners disagreed with your opinion on the matter, as would most people with any understanding of laws and their necessity in maintaining social order.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 27th 2019 at 3:00:32 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2097: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:01:37 AM

[up][up] Yeah, no. Justice is blind for a reason. No one is above the law. Having suffered doesn't put you above the law. Having a grudge, no matter how justified that grudge itself is, does not put you above the law. Having been the victim of a crime doesn't put you above the law.

You're not allowed to steal from someone, because they stole from you. You're not allowed to attack someone who attacked you in the past. And you're certainly not allowed to kill people even if they've killed those close to you. I'd imagine there would be scores of gangbangers walking free if people were.

An eye for an eye went out of vogue morality wise centuries ago, again for a reason. It doesn't work as a moral code: it invites thuggery and encourages brutality and reactionary punishment rather than actual service to the people.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 27th 2019 at 12:06:58 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#2098: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:02:26 AM

Jessica Jones has a serious issue that it doesn't work in the MCU. Like when she tried to tell Iron Fist his powers weren't inspired by Ki. It doesn't make her look smart or edgy. Quite the opposite.

It’s not like she’s been to K’un L’un or that chi powers are a well known phenomenon in the MCU. I feel Danny would have gotten a similar reaction from the Avengers simply because he wouldn’t be able to prove it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2099: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:06:43 AM

Justice without mercy cannot be justice.

It's why Jury Nullification exists.

Also why judges.

The whole point is to judge the circumstances of actions rather than simply a uniform sentence that is without any claim to justice.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2100: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:07:58 AM

Justice without mercy cannot be justice.

That doesn't make sense as a defense of what you're trying to argue: an eye for an eye is inherently more merciless than an even justice system, because in putting some people above the law it thus also puts other below it.

You're not arguing for mercy. You're arguing for retribution (or more precisely that people should be allowed to take it on their own authority). The justice system doesn't do that, or at least it's not supposed to.

Also why judges.

Judges exist to interpret the ruling of the court to the situation. In Trish's case, for example: she's totally guilty of murder, but it's up to the judge to analyze whether her case was fair or - in some cases - sentence her based on her situation (sentencing is kind of a mix between jury and judge depending on the court and crime, and I'm not well versed in the ratio).

She would maybe get sentenced more sympathetically by judge and jury for Salinger (and even then only for Salinger), but she wouldn't not be guilty of murder. Salinger's death is very bluntly murder no matter how you slice it.

It's why Jury Nullification exists.

Juries don't get nullified because a guilty party is sympathetic. They get nullified is a party's case is represented in a way flagrantly unfair to that party, or if the ruling was invalid or unethical in some way.

"I killed a bunch of people but I had a really good motive" is not grounds for an unethical ruling. That's more for "they threw the book at him because he was black" or something along those lines.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 27th 2019 at 12:41:49 PM


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