Interesting comments.
As others stated, religion has been a vehicle for ideology and an understanding of the world. I caution against equating it to science. For several reasons that are off-topic, I don't think it's correct to view the two as counterparts to each other.
Religion is one of many tools in civilization's toolbox for coping with the world, and many people who use religion for nefarious purposes (and morally good purposes) are doing so to justify behaviors and attitudes that probably didn't need a religious explanation to begin with.
I left Christianity a long time ago, and I'm an atheist. Something I've repeatedly seen in both the religious and atheist communities is that some of them do their best to rationalize forms of oppression and bigotry such as misogyny, racism and wealth inequality. Calvinistic anti-welfare attitudes among some Christians aren't all that different from objectivist anti-welfare attitudes among atheists. The vocabulary and rhetorical devices may be different, but the underlying ideology is the same.
I wholeheartedly reject the notion that religion can and should be used as a prima facie explanation for all the ills of the world because of what science and the humanities have shown us about ourselves.
Yes.
edited 20th Oct '15 12:35:47 PM by Aprilla
It is just an excuse. "Because the government" or "Because god" or "Because country" or "Because honor" have held back scientific advances before
Religion is just the easiest one to target because of historical reasons of piled up past occurences, given how well documented it is compared to, say, how many times people have said "Ok, you stop doing that because you bring dishonor to the clan/family/nation"
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes![]()
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I think that all those examples are just different expressions (or symptoms if you will) of the same flawed way of thinking.
"X is bad/good because Y says it is, and Y is always right because I just know it is/it says it is/I would get sad if it wasn't/derp."
edited 20th Oct '15 12:30:49 PM by Corvidae
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.In my case...because how damn prevalent religion is in a sociaty.
I meant before religion tend to be very present at large, mixing with some social behivor, making dificult in some places it, Kim davis is a homophobe that is true but by mixing with her belief suddenly she become symbol of defiant to onhold her belief, other people be dammed.
Nowdays religion is still there and there is not way to disapear...BUT(and this is issue) is become less of a thing nowdays, become more a guiance for people that a dictate of social behivor, for me that is closer one can get to a star trek like future.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Has for the history of atrocities done in the name of religions...
Let's put it this way.
Religions have been around for millennia, and nowadays around 80% of the entire human population is religious to some degree.
There being no instances of people doing horrible things in the name of religion is basically a statistic impossibility.
Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.Agreed. The problem isn't actually the religions themselves (though most are crap, they wouldn't have to be) but their standing in society. The problem is putting religious beliefs on a pedestal above other ideologies and beliefs.
Reverence for supernatural things isn't the actual problem. It's the reverence for the reverence for supernatural things.
I don't like churches as institutions, because by their nature, they are opaque, rigid and authoritarian. The Holy See is the most obvious example (hiding abuse cases because having them investigated would damage its image as infallible) but every faith where leaders have material power falls into this. They all carry abuses of power that might have been on par with secular institutions before about the nineteenth century, but now they are glaringly backwards.
Then there is religion as imposed teachings, and here even "for the time" doesn't entirely acquit them. All "classical" religions tell their followers to keep to a code of conduct and enforce it by ostracism. (My own grandmother did a lot of research on the Scottish Kirk, their control was impressive.) These morals were often superior to cultural ones, as attested by the melioration of warfare in Europe after Christianity and how faith can motivate people into working hard to this day. But the fact remains that they suppressed individual moralities by presenting themselves as cosmic truths, and not just cultural mores. Many churches today condemn contraception, abortion and polyamory with no regards to whether it works. They cannot compromise on their past dogma because to admit empirical study would undermine their revealed, eternal basis.
Also, a religion is by nature a bias, like nationalism. Your nation may dictate what sports team/diplomatic envoy/army you cheer for, but your faith biases you on a cosmic scale.
These are not problems with Deism or volunteer faith communities like Wicca. I should add that I know very few people with strong religious faith, my mother is a Deist and I would have to say my father (who does he look up to, turn to, seek guidance from?) is a Meist.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.Given how I am what I think is called "Apatheist" I think I classify as a "Meh-ist" :P
Still. Wilful grants of power to an institution by numbers of people? You described several institutions there: Banks. Governments. Militaries. Schools. Why are religious institutions different from them, other than "They don't produce anything, they just wiggle their fingers and go OOGA BOOGA!"?
Religious institutions are a vast net of emotional support, and for sources that need it, they are better off having them than not having them. Wether they are gathering due to the shared love of fictional animated cartoon ponies, their love of sugared carbonated beverages or an appreciation of "underground art that sticks it to the man...! Sponsored by Pabst Blue Ribbon", these support nets are important things
From there, every institution will have its failures. Politicians, Priests, Teachers, CE Os and Generals alike have all made their share of abuse of power.
Doesn't seem like anything exclusive to religious institutions.
It's just humans. It's how we are. Condemning religion as a whole seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And you needed that water to clean some other stuff afterwards.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesAszur takes a moment from being the team goofball to drop some serious wisdom. ![]()
Because of creationists (of all flavours, Jewish, Islamic and Hindu, not just Christian), because of Kim Davis and her ilk who believe that just because its mandated by their religion it should some how elevate their bigotry to protected status, because of Hindu nationalists hunting down Muslims in India, because of mobs of Muslim fanatics in Bangladesh hunting down and killing atheists and Christians alike, because of Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka inciting ethnic violence against the (predominantly Hindu) Tamil minority, because of Haredim in both Israel and the US attempting to enforce their rules on those who aren't Haredi (be they other, less strict members of the Jewish faith or outright Gentiles).
And because while they don't represent all believers, or even a majority of believers, they are still propped up by those moderate and liberal believers, however unwittingly, because they continue to validate the idea that faith based reasoning is valid and/or good. However laudable the actions of those who volunteer to care those less well off, to organise community events to give their fellows a sense of belonging ad community, the fact that remains that they are Right for the Wrong Reasons. And because those reasons are wrong you get the ones (and others like them) that I mentioned in the first paragraph.
Okay, I'm here. Killing this before it gets out of hand.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Religion has often been used as an excuse to justify oppression. If it didn't exist, the oppression still would.
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