Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

I found an interesting forum thread about Kreia and how, after several posts of gushing about her, someone points out that she's underdeveloped like the rest of the game was.

The game never lets you retort in any meaningful way. Actually being able to retort, even if it is via Kylo Ren getting his ear chewed off, would be a massive catharsis.

Technically Kylo already got his retort. He fixated so hard on killing the past by focusing on Luke, that he missed the threat of the future caused by the Resistance and Rey’s escape.

I mean, I'd say the fact that in all possible endings you reject her teachings, prove at least part of them wrong through your actions, and kill her to be a pretty meaningful retort.

It’s pretty straightforward Beware the Superman logic: if the only thing the good Differently Powered Individuals seem to do is fight the bad ones, then it will start to seem like the real problem is that people get powers in the first place.

Yes the Jedi Service Corp exists, and that’s a pretty cool concept, but the general scarcity of force-sensitives can make one question whether they can really make much of a difference in an entire galaxy.

Edited by Novis on Jun 26th 2019 at 12:08:24 PM

I used to whine about Kriea too, but over the years I warmed up to her character significantly. Especially when you take the context of the era she lived in into account, like states. I'm not saying she's correct, and being able to disagree with her is important, but the Villain Has a Point when even media made after her introduction turns out eerily similar to what happened in the Legends continuity.

I will said the issue is kreia kinda seen to speak in a metatextual level in how the galaxy seen to come to blow between super good wizard and super evil one, over and over and over and it feel that well....maybe the used of the force have something to do with it.

TJL look more pro-kreia because it pretty much end with the OT: a band of super nazis led by and damn space wizard look like the previous space wizard and a band of pluky rebels with space monk with them.

Is kinda hard not look that and not said "you know what? kreia was right, fuck the force forever"

Evil and fascism independently of the Force.

Kreia's argument is basically one that only works in a meta-textual level of the franchise. Within the franchise itself, it requires one to calmly ignore that a bunch of threats arise independently of the Jedi-Sith conflict (Mandalorians, for one) and that more often than not the Jedi are the one thing standing in their path.

Which it can be see as problem of the republic for overealing on the jedi, the critzice kinda stand.

Indeed that is why I didnt want the first order to be so smiliar to the empire because it kidna reforce the idea is a eternal cycle.

I'd really like for the next big threat in the universe to be non-Force related. At least, not strictly so. There's so many different concepts and characters in the Star Wars universe: let's explore them a bit, rather than always being the Sith and their disciples trying to take over the universe.

big planet killing lasers usually aren't force related

I absolutely agree. Have been saying this since they announced the sequels and was (still am) massively disappointed they went with the Sith redux.

My original suggestion was a robotic rebellion.

"You see, this cancer patient is relying too much on his medicine to stave it off. Let's just cut it off and let him fend for himself.". Out-of-universe, it is a valid criticism of the franchise's perhaps over-reliance on the Jedi (though given they've been wiped out twice I'd disagree), in-universe it is Objectivist bullshit.

Can you call the Mandalorians independent of it when the Sith caused their war with the Republic on some level and that one story linked in these threads some times put the aliens that were the predecessors of the Mandlorians as victims of evil Force users who arranged for them to get fucked over?

Edited by doineedaname on Jun 27th 2019 at 1:06:34 PM

Is more of "really republic, can you handle this or you need the rope brigated to deal this with you" in a way Star wars kinda suffer a lof of superhero universe problems.

And a problem is not a stih redux because there is A LOT but is empire who isnt the empire, that is why at times the new trilogy who feel like a reboot with isnt.

Kreia claiming that the Force causes all conflict in the galaxy is the same as atheists claiming that religion is responsible for every war in history, which is just as disingenuous.

Maybe but when a lot of the conflict come from force user is kinda dificult to rebuke that, I mean the empire was palpatine creation even if the decadence was already there, is kinda meta textual: the jedi-sith conflict always take center stage with their goverment as proxy.

Which is why I want the vong to appear.

Wait a minute.

The Sith have been lying low for a thousand years & conflict still continued just not on a too massive scale.

Clearly they are not responsible for all conflict in the universe especially as its been stated they did nothing but gather resources during most of that time.

Kreia truly is full of bullshit.

I don't ever want the Yuuzhan Vong in a star wars movie, they comes across as trying too hard to be edging and grim dark,so no thanks

The difference is that superheroes usually exist independent of whatever legal apparatus there is that should be dealing with the issue. In Star Wars the Jedi are part of that legal apparatus. They work for the Republic and at its behest.

Saying that the Republic is too reliant on the Jedi is like saying a city is too reliant on its police force to maintain law and order.

x9 Some of them are of they are powered kyber crystal which is a tool used to power tbe lightsabers Jedi fight using.

Listened to an audiobook of the old Thrawn trilogy and I feel like that would have made for a more interesting thing to do movies around.

Rather than being an overwhelming force that can easily crush the New Republic, the imperial remnant build up their forces and use tactics to get a string of victories. The books have action, the new republic dealing both internal issues, a potential traitor and a massive information leak they couldn't plug up. Don't even have to go one for one with the events just use the ideas.

One example being using a flawed stealth system to cloak a small number of astroids and leave them in low orbit around Coruscant while using their tractor beam enough times to make it seem like they launched 200 rather than just a few dozen.

Edited by Darthwyn on Jun 27th 2019 at 3:15:14 PM

At least in legend there is indeed a truly number of time of fighting between jedi and sith, in part of the recyle plot of SW so yeah.

more edgy than space nazis led by space edgelords? hard to beat that.

Kinda, the jedi exist in that sort of neboulus state

Just for fun, some throwback proof that the overreacting indecision of Star Wars fans is eternal.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 28th 2019 at 6:32:34 AM

Aaron McGruder later went on to work directly with George Lucas for Red Tails.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 28th 2019 at 6:37:41 AM

Keep in mind that Empire Strikes Back had the exact same sort of reactions that The Last Jedi did, and today it's seen as one of the best Star Wars movies.