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The Global Refugee Wave and Migrant Crisis

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Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#251: Sep 8th 2015 at 4:03:57 PM

[up] u wot m8 u lookin' for a proper rumble thall make ur nan sore just hearin' about it?

But anyways, yeah. Those people may have smartphones but plenty of examples can be made of immigrants who had plenty and had to leave it all behind even if it does not look like that.

One of my teachers in college remembers that one of the things that hurt him the most having to leave behind, was his collection of books. He was a doctor in Venezuela. So yeah, fuck Chavez and Maduro.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#252: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:34:20 PM

Syria's middle class was about 30-40% of the population. 20m, so 6-7 million.

I already posted that Germany may have lucked out in that the refugees heading towards them are middle class cause better educated, more skilled (plus less likely to have issues with birth control).

This of course runs counter to my preference that the most in need get prioritized (ex. the Syrians in UN refugee camps). But since they're already there - Germany should just take them in.

I did come across the British PM saying that the refugees the UK will be taking in will be from the UN camps.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#253: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:40:13 PM

Being skilled and, at one time, better than destitute, doesn't mean they aren't as desperate as the others now. One's fortune tends to dwindle very quickly in these sort of situations.

editerguy from Australia Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#254: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:41:31 PM

Australia to accept additional 12,000 Syrian refugees

Originally the plan was to prioritise Christians, but now our intake will supposedly focus on all persecuted minorities: "Religion is not the issue here, the issue is persecuted ethnic and religious minorities".

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#255: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:56:57 PM

[up][up] The migrants who head to Europe on their own had cash reserves.

But as I already repeatedly said, Germany should just take them in. I even posted early in the thread that Germany should (not) send them back to Greece.

It's basically similar to my feelings about my country's OF Ws. I would prefer that our poorest get the opportunity to work abroad but of course reality dictates it would be middle class or higher who get the most opportunities or the better job prospects overseas.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#256: Sep 8th 2015 at 10:08:32 PM

Those migrants fled in the first months. These guys are not the same.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#257: Sep 8th 2015 at 10:43:30 PM

[up] According to this page:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/smuggling-refugees-into-europe-is-a-new-growth-industry/2015/09/03/398c72c4-517f-11e5-b225-90edbd49f362_story.html

Syria’s conflict, well into its fifth year, has upended the lives of many middle-class families with deep wells of savings. Many of them might have stayed close to Syria for years in the hopes of returning home before giving up and turning toward Europe.

I think all the news several months ago increased the interest which resulted in a bigger surge. I also expect the news of Germany being quite nice about it to add to an even bigger surge.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#258: Sep 8th 2015 at 10:47:41 PM

they HAD deep wells of savings. Thats not still true, and thats why they are heading to Europe. It goes back to my initial point that while they may have skills and were once well off, that is no longer true. Especially once they actually reach Europe given the price gouging that occurs just to make the trip.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#259: Sep 8th 2015 at 10:51:25 PM

[up] Read the article.

There was a big spikes in refugees crossing over this year. It wasn't a gradual increase from 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.

Basically all the news helped created a big bandwagon effect.

Those smuggling prices are also per adult. Right now, there's a spike in refugees giving up their entire life savings to get to Europe.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#260: Sep 8th 2015 at 11:12:14 PM

I'm not sure what your point even is, because it has nothing to do with my own point that these people are no longer "well off" by Europe's standards.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#261: Sep 8th 2015 at 11:41:31 PM

[up] I'll try to simplify then. Try, because complex issues resist simplification.

Even if they are Syrian refugees, if they can afford to pay smugglers three months (average) wages per adult (and that's the minimum) just for the boat trip, their primary motivation (then) is economical-based rather than based on sheer desperation.

Of course, once the smugglers got most of their life savings, it switches to primarily desperation because it's a one-way all or nothing journey.

This is why some would complain about refugees leaving Turkey, even though it's a safe country. Or the complaints about asylum shopping - they don't want to be fingerprinted in Greece or Italy - it's got to be Germany, Sweden, etc. cause better.

Though (again), even if I think they're being choosy, even if I think there are others more in need, I still would vote for Germany to just let them stay.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#262: Sep 9th 2015 at 4:11:27 AM

Except Turkey is not safe. They want to push the Syrians back into Syria. Thats part of the whole plan to create the buffer zone which the US has yet to bite (thankfully). This isn't even including the disdain there due to having too many refugees.

And not wanting to be mistreated by the people you are seeking refuge with is well within their rights. If, for example, they were to stay in Hungary after crossing from Serbia, given Orban's comments? There is a difference between wanting to lead a dignified life and going because of money like a typical immigrant.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#263: Sep 9th 2015 at 4:26:10 AM

[CBS] Reporters capture video of black-clad armed men in speedboats coming from Greek coast to rob/disable craft transporting migrants and leaving them adrift at sea.

The victims in the video were eventually rescued by the Turkish Coast Guard. The men are suspected by many to be members of the Greek Coast Guard, which the Greeks will neither confirm or deny at the moment.

Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#265: Sep 9th 2015 at 5:30:11 AM

I heard about that yesterday. The cameraman in question was employed by a TV station with ties to Jobbik, Hungary's resident far-right party.

Very quickly afterwards, the station issued a statement that this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable and fired her on the spot.

One of the major telecom companies in Hungary also announced their intention to install free wifi and smartphone recharging stations in the refugee camps; the company's Facebook page has been continually assaulted by anti-migrant trolls ever since, the moderators are keeping their cool so far.

At the railway station where last week's clusterfuck took place in Budapest, police is letting migrants board the trains once again, though only families and only in limited numbers.

edited 9th Sep '15 5:34:20 AM by amitakartok

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#266: Sep 9th 2015 at 7:34:02 AM

Welp. Evil Is Petty. Tripping people and shit? Really? If she had a moustache she woulda twirled it, too.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#267: Sep 9th 2015 at 7:43:02 AM

Reviewing / researching about how Turkey is actually doing. That NY Times article about shiny refugee camp may be a front or something.

So far, my research indicates that the Turks seems to be doing a way better job than the Greeks (and especially the Hungarians).

Officially, the Turkish govt. kept open borders policy, but lately they've been so overwhelmed that there's now more resistance at the borders.

They're also nearly at 2 million refugees, Syrians + others. 2.5% of their population. It's been causing housing shortages cause apparently (like the East vs West Germany thing), the refugees want to live in the cities (not at the camps), and the cities are already overloaded with domestic migrants, hence housing shortages and rents increasing.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#268: Sep 9th 2015 at 11:52:13 AM

Zep, French comicbook artist, author of popular kid's series Titeuf, drew a few pages of Titeuf getting thrust into a refugee's situation.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#269: Sep 9th 2015 at 1:32:21 PM

[up]I... wasn't expecting that from a story involving Titeuf.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#270: Sep 9th 2015 at 2:00:42 PM

GD, that was dark.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#271: Sep 9th 2015 at 2:01:29 PM

Isn't Zip Swiss?

edited 9th Sep '15 2:01:41 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#272: Sep 9th 2015 at 2:17:15 PM

Oh. I had always thought that Titeuf was from the Parisian projects...

A Fanco-Belgian comic that is neither French nor Belgian...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#273: Sep 9th 2015 at 7:49:04 PM

Refugee riot over torn page form the Koran injures 17. The rioters threw rocks at the police and attempted to lynch an Afghan man who had thrown a page from the Koran into the toilet.

edited 9th Sep '15 7:55:44 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#274: Sep 9th 2015 at 8:05:11 PM

[up][up]Well, he is French. The author isn't. Simples.


Although it's not directly related to the topic: have you all noticed the current shitstorm going down in social media? It's really scary to see friends of mine posting stuff like 'we shall defend [x country] from the Islamic invasion' and shit like that. Friends I used to think were fairly peaceful.

The polarization going on in the Internet is insane.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#275: Sep 9th 2015 at 8:19:01 PM

[up] It's the internet; it's always polarised, regardless of what's really going on.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history

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