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The Global Refugee Wave and Migrant Crisis

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probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#226: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:00:37 AM

These refugees are tech-savvy. When they reach Europe, they'll buy smartphones and local sims and then use GPS to navigate.

They also use facebook, whatsapp, etc. to share routes and tips (on which smugglers are the least likely to leave you for dead).

I don't find (above) jarring or anything but terrorist groups recruiting on social media caused me to BSOD the first time I learned about such.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#227: Sep 8th 2015 at 4:45:23 AM

2500 migrants arrived to Hungary from Serbia yesterday. The collection camp is packed like a sardine can, hundreds slept under the open sky. The situation was made even worse by the fact that, by central decree, all registration must be done at Röszke; the intention was to keep the ruckus away from Budapest, but it only succeeded at plunging that particular camp into absolute chaos.

The crowd has repeatedly tried to break out of the camp and make a run for it, but the police is not letting them. Some of the migrants now outright turn around and go back to Serbia to try and find a different route into the Schengen area. There are rumors that the police have given up and are now letting migrants go without registration, as even with ten registration desks, there's just too damn many of them.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#228: Sep 8th 2015 at 5:52:44 AM

Pre-civil war Syria had a law which made it a crime to advertise-sell birth control... I'm not going to ask why.

Hopefully, Germany's education and healthcare systems will keep population explosions at bay.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#229: Sep 8th 2015 at 6:09:57 AM

I'm not going to ask why.

Most religions outlaw that sort of stuff.


Mass breakout in Röszke. Of over a thousand migrants, barely a hundred are left, the rest escaped into a cornfield. Police are completely unable to do anything, as they're exhausted (some have been on duty for more than 24 hours now), massively outnumbered and are not allowed to use force.

The EU is sending Hungary four millions euros in emergency funds to sort out this shitstorm.

Orbán is asking his underlings that the construction of the fence must be sped up. One civil group (actually ultra-loyal Fidesz' lapdogs) is already looking for volunteers.

edited 8th Sep '15 6:16:55 AM by amitakartok

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#230: Sep 8th 2015 at 6:31:12 AM

Has nobody in Brussels considered that maybe it woudl be an idea to send police instead of money? It would take the pressure of the Hungarian police and hopefully reduce any human rights violations/abuse that's happening.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#231: Sep 8th 2015 at 6:40:17 AM

Has nobody in Brussels considered that maybe it would be an idea to send police instead of money?

Why would they do that? As long as it's the Hungarian police who cannot get a handle on the situation, everything can be blamed on Hungary.

Some of you might be wondering what Orbán is thinking to be acting like that. In his logic, as soon as a refugee is no longer in immediate danger of being killed and receives basic help in Turkey, Lebanon, Greece, Macedon, Serbia et al., they already received asylum. Thus, anyone who runs any further does so out of opportunism; "that's why we don't view them as refugees". One blog poster summarized it thus: "those in the refugee camp should shut the hell up and be happy that they're in safety, that there are no Taliban, people who burn others alive or ritualistically murder them [...] real refugees don't give a damn about treatment or how the bed is positioned, they're just happy nobody is making them kneel on the edge of a hole they just dug ".

edited 8th Sep '15 7:12:18 AM by amitakartok

Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#232: Sep 8th 2015 at 6:49:11 AM

@ probablyinsane:

According to various statistic, it usually takes one generation for immigrants to get their fertility rate down to a Ethnic German's level; which given the demographic crisi in Germany is not necessarily something to be happy about.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#233: Sep 8th 2015 at 12:05:10 PM

I know that the current times are not kind to any of us, but here are 5 groups you can safely donate your money to for the cause of the immigrants.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#234: Sep 8th 2015 at 12:28:29 PM

Iraqi's dream of Europe, and in some cases, the US.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Kajeds Since: Sep, 2015
#235: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:05:00 PM

[up][up] Unfortunately those refugees with their Ipads are already better off than I am. :)

It is nice to see all those strong young men coming to make Europe's lonely women happy. grin I hope for a lot of interracial unions for make Europe better place. And hopefully Islamic family values will also spread.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#236: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:11:39 PM

iPads and smartphones, unlike bank accounts, lifesavings, furnitures, jobs and houses, are portable.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#237: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:13:06 PM

[up][up] Oh come on your probably have a house, and you defiantly have at least some sort of access to the internet if you can post here, and you are not at risk of drowning in the Mediterranean on a rickety ass boat.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#238: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:15:08 PM

[up]How is it defiant to have Internet access? Do you mean it's defiant to have it while complaining of someone else's gadgets?

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#239: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:39:38 PM

Pretty sure he meant "definately". In any case, I think we can all agree it's not the refugees fault that they are looking for a better life somewhere other than a tent city.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#240: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:39:58 PM

I think Jack's spellchecker corrected him trying to say "definitely".

Edit: [nja]ed because I had to check the spelling myself.

edited 8th Sep '15 2:40:41 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#241: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:40:13 PM

I think he typo'd "Definitely"

Aszur will remember these [nja]

edited 8th Sep '15 2:41:09 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#242: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:51:38 PM

Dam it why does the computer always act so defiantly to me typing definitely.[lol]

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#243: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:51:59 PM

I should've spotted that. I guess I just haven't seen this particular misspelling often enough to sort of auto-correct for it yet. (The words aren't similar enough that I'd get it right away.)

Anyway, the complaint that these refugees are "too wealthy" or something is ridiculous. They've had to run for their lives, leaving behind everything they couldn't carry. Of course they'd take things like mobile phones and tablet computers - they're probably going to need them if they get to settle in a new place, for GPS and all sorts of other stuff. They probably needed them even before they'd managed to get out of their own country.

That doesn't mean they don't need to be rescued. They're desperate enough to risk their lives (and their family, as well) to cross the sea and try to get to safety. They're not shopping for welfare states.

As for the "they're taking our women" thing, women don't belong to anyone - including the men of their own culture. There's nothing wrong with having more people and more diversity in a place that isn't already too full of people. (I mean, I'd get it if Singapore decided they don't want any more population growth but European countries in general have plenty of room.)

Would more inter-cultural unions make Europe a better place? Probably not - but not any worse, either. Ideally it wouldn't matter at all. Actually, to the extent that people from inter-cultural backgrounds help others learn about other cultures, it can be a very good thing. It shouldn't be necessary, though; and in any case, fundamentally it shouldn't matter whether a family is composed of one or more cultures.

Islamic values? If you mean the religion itself, while I'm not a fan of religion myself I wouldn't say that someone bringing in a new(-ish) culture or religion is a good thing. Of course there's the question of whether the new culture can exist without violating the principles of equality and freedom and so on. Currently it seems that on the long term they probably can, but there might be a reactionary period first. Nothing new.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#244: Sep 8th 2015 at 2:59:33 PM

Would more inter-cultural unions make Europe a better place?

I would ay the exact opposite. even from a biological standpoint a greater genetic diversity is better than stalling. Ideas thoughts and cultures are neither original nor stagnant: they evolve and the more of the better things they got to mooch off of the better.

And considering one of the wealthiest powers in our modern world is basically born of, made of, and runs of immigrants from different cultures, I would not be capable of thinking of a historical precedent for how keeping everything the same was ever useful to a nation.

I would also argue that many religious values are positive and we could do with keeping them. But I believe that is a topic for another thread.

edited 8th Sep '15 3:01:47 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#245: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:05:45 PM

[up]I'll just say first that I'm leaving the last bit of your post out of this comment entirely because I don't want to derail by commenting on it either way. I'm just acknowledging it here so it doesn't affect how you read the rest of this post.

I agree with everything you said about multiculturalism there. Diversity is good, both in biological and, probably even more so, in terms of ideas and culture. Having more perspectives and different experiences is good, and I should've thought of that before I sent my post. (Of course, the bit about cultures has less to do with inter-cultural unions and more to do with just being in the same society. There doesn't have to be a direct connection between two individuals there - that's the difference between that and genetic mixing. Both are good, anyway.)

edited 8th Sep '15 3:06:22 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#246: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:11:31 PM

Could also be a bit about how one interprets the words "making the lonely women of Europe" thing. I decided to take it more of as a joke than to take it serious but if taken at face value, yeah...that'd sound pretty effin' weird.

Just gave it the benefit of the doubt. Because of the smiley.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#247: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:26:17 PM

The women of Europe have a tendency to run off with foreigners, I mean just look at what happened when the American GI's came around.[lol]

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#248: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:33:23 PM

The men of Europe, of course, also have a habit of running off with foreigners - bun in their country. It's a quirk of history, basically, that it's usually the men who travel to other countries to "mix", so to speak, while the women tend to stay home.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#249: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:48:59 PM

brb omw to Europe

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#250: Sep 8th 2015 at 3:54:58 PM

You act like I didn't warn Interpol about you years ago Aszur.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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