Not cynical enough. People still like that one Norwegian heavy metal dude even though he's a neo-Nazi, white supremacist, burned down several churches and outright murdered one of his band mates. De La Cruz will still have a bunch of supporters even if he were outed as a murderer. He'd probably lose that big mansion he has in the afterlife though.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?![]()
People will still think he's a good actor, which could make it why some will still latch onto him. Also lingering fans will still think the murder accusations are ambiguous, and that they are slandering a "a good man's' name based on decades old charges.
Okay, I have to make a confession.
I lost my older sister back in June. She committed suicide back in June, and I was the first responder.
Every time I listen to Remember Me, I can't help but think about her, and it brings me to tears listening to that song and remembering all the good times I had with my sister. Man, Pixar really got me this time.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.Saw the film yesterday. I regret to say I wasn't as emotionally shaken as other people seemed to be. There's really nothing wrong with this movie. It's beautiful, really, and shows the Mexican culture in (what I assume to be) a warm and respectful way. The music, the setting, the visuals, the performances, the characters, all of that works.
The only problem I had with this film is that it's so. Damn. Predictable. Like, every modern animation cliché is there, to the point there are numerous scene where you can exactly predict what's gonna happen, including the emotional climax (save maybe for the reveal that Hector was Miguel's great-great-granddad, that was genuinely surprising). That didn't exactly prevent me from enjoying the movie, but it did leave me with a bitter taste.
I'm not sure about part of the message either: "family is the most important thing… but it kinda sucks if your ancestor is an impostor and a murderer, but thankfully he isn't!" Hmm yeah… Admittedly, post-mortem retribution isn't something you see that often. It was still a bit brutal for a kid's movie though. ô.Ô But well, I do like that neither Miguel nor his family were shown to be completely in the wrong or the right.
Which makes me wonder, does being remembered in infamy still count as "being remembered"? Also, how does that afterlife work? Is it only Mexican people who go there?
edited 3rd Dec '17 4:22:05 AM by Lyendith
The message was "family is the most important thing", not "a specific family member from your ancestry is the most important thing". Miguel tried to justify himself throughout the film by saying he was honoring his family by choosing music just like Ernesto, but he was only attempting to honor one member specifically that happened to align with what he already believed, while shunning the rest of his family.
edited 3rd Dec '17 10:59:27 PM by Tuckerscreator
There's also the fact that Ernesto not being Miguel's grandfather, while he finds family to look up to in Hector, reinforces the "don't be afraid to be yourself" message - in a "your idol may have been a fraud, but there are still people out there you can support you" kind of way. It's just very explicit about it.
They also kind of wrote themselves into a wall with Ernesto being a murderous fraud out to protect his secret by any means, because after that with the exception of the photograph Miguel had absolutely no reason not to go back to Imelda with broken faith and jump ship to the living world, no matter what the conditions, just to get away from him. Hector being his grandfather gave him reason to believe in being a part of his family while also being himself again.
As a matter of fact, now that I think about it: learning Hector is his grandfather represented a motive shift in Miguel himself. Once he realizes he can save Hector, he shifts from becoming a musician despite others to follow his own dream (like Ernest), to bringing his dream to his family in order to enrich both himself and the people he cares about (like Hector tried to do). Maybe a bit of Fridge Brilliance.
I saw it. I will post my thoughts in posts over the next days or so.
Is this Pixar's first musical? I believe so! What a splendid entry into their line of movies!
I know the moral they were trying to go for. Listen to your family yet find a balance of giving and receiving, don't be selfish, etc. But man.... this movie's most glaring story flaw in addition to being way too predictable, is its insistence of being clean. When Ernasto is ousted as a murderer, it's like everyone in the Land of the Dead reacts like no one else in history ever murdered someone before. No one will appreciate his work after that one single moment because everyone is so honest and forgiving in the world? Have you BEEN in 2017?? Everything's pretty effed up. People won't ever believe something even with evidence placed in front of them, and they'll still follow a famous idol even if he committed insane amounts of crimes. The whole shock just felt a bit awkward to me from a research point of view. Where do murderers end up after they die? I think their problem wasn't that he murdered someone, but more importantly it's that he did that and then hid it from everyone while continuing to absorb all the praise and acclaim even in death. It definitely provided the darkest moment in the movie, but maybe it could've been directed more smoothly.
I loved how the moral itself was told though! Because Mama Coco's memory was going, and she's too old to even tell anyone who her father really was, it forced Miguel to assume who his great-great-grandfather was on his own, which is bound to be wrong, especially for a 10-year-old. The hints were placed well enough that there was reason to BELIEVE De La Cruz was his great-great-grandfather. So the reveal of him not only being a murderer but not even being IN Miguels family, AND Hector being the real writer AND family, was a great twist! I am annoyed all Disney movies have the villain twist now, but this time it was well-written and I was legit shocked when it was revealed! Miguel ALMOST became a second De La Cruz, flaws and all, and only played music for himself instead of serving his family, if he never ran into Hector by coincidence! So his family was right to keep his secrets from him in order to protect him.
The ending will make you FEEL like crying, if you didn't cry at all. It really hits you in the Dead-Grandma Feelz type. Or even if you have a loved grandma who is sweet but you know will die soon. God that song Remember Me is one of the best songs in a Pixar movie in probably the past few years.
I would love to see the look on his living family's faces when he breaks the news of De La Cruz being a murderer. :D Too bad it's off-screen before the epilogue.
edited 6th Dec '17 9:40:18 AM by kyun
To be fair, they saw him try to murder a child on camera. He’ll likely retain a fan base in the living world where it’s just “allegations”, but in the Land of the Dead there is total uprising against him because they saw him literally in the act of murder.
Saw the film in Spanish. Understood every 3rd or 4th word/sentence. It was very good. I definitely liked the spirit animals the most out of all the worldbuilding elements. I don't know why the dog and the cat are able to be as alive or dead as they want, but I'm glad. Hector and Imelda were cool. Who doesn't keep poison just lying around?
Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.Neat article on Frida Kahlo's cameo in the film
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"There's a saying in Spanish — calladita mas bonita — that means 'You're prettier when you're quiet,' and we've all heard it I felt alone a lot of the time, and like being who I was, wasn't OK. And my father gifted me Frida Kahlo's diary. I started reading it and realizing that this woman felt exactly like I felt, and her paintings were in museums and her diary was being sold. She just made me realize that being an outcast and a rebel is a good thing and that those are the people who change the world and inspire others, because it takes courage to step out of the norm."
The actress was well aware that Kahlo's voice had never been recorded, so for Coco, she put a lot of energy into attempting to channel the voice she heard in her own head when she read Kahlo's poems and diary entries. "The intensity with which she loved, the intensity with which she felt all her emotions, was beyond what most human beings have," said Cordova-Buckley. "And so I wanted there to be pride in [the Coco line] 'And they're all me,' sort of saying to the world, 'I don't care if you think I'm being egomaniacal — I love myself,' and you should love yourselves. At the same time, she painted herself to study herself, so there's humility there."
Cordova-Buckley also found freedom in the notion that Kahlo could flourish in the Land of the Dead, freed from her troubled body after a lifetime of hardship. "This is Dead Frida. Alive Frida, like all of us, had a lot of doubts and a lot of suffering and a lot of pain," she said. "And I wanted that to be there, but it's become wisdom now. After death, she has taken all these experiences and made them into strength and empowerment."
Yeah I'm sure people who watched Salma Hayek's Frida would feel a bit awkward seeing her camoe in this movie since her life was actually pretty hellish. It's comforting to know that when you die, even if you experienced a bad life, you can have a second chance at enjoying it in the Land of the Dead.
edited 9th Dec '17 1:28:46 PM by kyun

Maybe I'm being overly cynical but I feel like in real life it'd probably take something as bad as being outed as a murderer for a celebrity's die-hard fans to ditch them. Seeing as how being outed as a sex offender frequently doesn't work...