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Coco: Day of the Dead Film by Pixar

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firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#251: Nov 27th 2017 at 4:38:36 PM

[up]

Gosh, just imagine the different Lands Of The Dead around the world. I do wonder if they would adhere to the same ones as those in Mexico.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#252: Nov 27th 2017 at 4:41:13 PM

I wonder the same thing about Bleach, too, actually, since we only see what seems to be Japan's afterlife.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#253: Nov 27th 2017 at 4:41:45 PM

Given how different cultures view the afterlife I'm sure they're very different

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#254: Nov 27th 2017 at 5:46:59 PM

"This is the first Disney film to be theatrically accompanied by a half-hour featurette since 1990's The Rescuers Down Under (which was theatrically accompanied by the Mickey Mouse short The Prince and the Pauper)."

I wonder how audiences reacted to that length then XD

edited 27th Nov '17 5:47:24 PM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#255: Nov 27th 2017 at 6:37:31 PM

TBF, The Prince And The Pauper was actually good. It was even re-released with Brother Bear.

edited 27th Nov '17 6:38:24 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Eldritcho Since: Nov, 2016
#256: Nov 27th 2017 at 6:38:36 PM

[up][up]

I don't think they did, because nobody went to see it.

edited 27th Nov '17 6:38:48 PM by Eldritcho

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#257: Nov 27th 2017 at 6:40:24 PM

anthropologists have argued that reverence for the dead is one of the few things common to all of humanity

Actually isn't universal. The Maasai do not practice burial, the practical reason being that burying a dead body takes too long and would attract predators, and spiritually they do not believe in an afterlife. A number of African tribes don't, which led to the famous case where an Oxford professor claimed Hamlet could be understood by any culture but then struggled to explain what a ghost is.

edited 27th Nov '17 6:41:00 PM by Tuckerscreator

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#259: Nov 27th 2017 at 8:56:18 PM

[up][up][up] It helps that the Rescuers Down Under is less than an hour and 20 minutes long. Helps pad out the running time a bit.

EDIT: I have now seen Coco. It was really good! The "short", not so much. It might have been okay as a TV Christmas special, especially since the standards for those are so low, but it was just weird in the theatre. No stakes, songs that feel like riffs on each other and ones from the movie, and it was a TV aspect ratio which really stuck out compared to the trailers and Coco.

But Coco itself was great. I think it's a better movie than Book of Life, but I still like Book of Life more. I can't really articulate why.

edited 28th Nov '17 12:43:17 PM by Zendervai

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#260: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:29:37 PM

The "follow your dreams, but temper yourself so that you don't become selfish" moral of this movie is interesting and refreshing, especially given that Disney's last movie was more "nothing, not family, not tradition, not common sense is as important as following your dreams. Eventually everyone else will fall in line," which I always felt was slightly iffy.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#261: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:32:01 PM

[up] I didn't find either Miguel or the other Riveras' attitudes at the start of the story all that sympathetic, so I'm definitely glad a compromise was reached.

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#262: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:40:19 PM

[up][up]

For Moana, it was more about using her dream to help her people. She wasn't just taking to the see to satisfy herself, but to undo the trouble that was plaguing her island.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#263: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:56:53 PM

I also felt the threat Moana was facing in the movie was significantly less prominent in the plot than is should have been, as was the fact that she was fighting for someone/something (iirc, outside a brief nightmare sequence halfway through, saving her people isn't even mentioned beyond the inciting incident).

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#264: Nov 29th 2017 at 6:13:48 AM

Yeah, if Moana hadn’t headed out, her people probably would have ended up starving to death. And yes, the movie references that like once after she actually leaves.

And, I’ll be honest, I kind of winced at one of the morals of Coco. The “family is one of the most important things” one. I get a little uncomfortable when I hear it now, because I worked at a version of CPS for a while and, no, family is not the most important thing, especially when the parents are horrible abusive people who use messages like that to trap and control their children.

But, Coco did make a point (without spelling it out) out of the fact that while the kids have to appreciate and work with their families, so do their parents and grandparents. It’s a two way street, not just “respect your elders” repeated ad nauseum.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#265: Nov 29th 2017 at 10:35:41 AM

That's basically why I was pleased that the movie settled on Miguel and his family both having to improve.

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#266: Nov 29th 2017 at 11:17:03 AM

You know I keeping thinking about what Coco thought about Ernesto's commercial version of her lullaby. I have a feeling she would be questioning how did he get his hands on her father's song, when it was only supposed to be between him and her. It would probably secretly make her wonder whatever happened to her papa.

It would have probably made her sad, since it did remind her of Hector and the fact that no one would believe her if she told them that her father made it.

edited 29th Nov '17 11:17:42 AM by firewriter

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#267: Nov 29th 2017 at 3:25:40 PM

I do wonder why Coco never spoke up. I mean, she has to be nearly a hundred (her dad left in '21); was Imelda really that stubborn?

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#268: Nov 29th 2017 at 4:51:27 PM

[up]

It probably is a holdover from the fact that her mother wouldn't want to see any inkling of her father.

Also there is some h/c's going around about how Ernesto must have done something to make sure that there was no evidence of him poisoning his friend and making sure that Imelda didn't know of Hector's death. He probably lied to the authorities about what happened, and left out details about Hector having a family so that he could have the guy buried in an unmarked grave. If that is what happened, then it makes Ernesto into even more of a rat than he already is.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#269: Nov 29th 2017 at 6:28:04 PM

I was quite surprised at how thoroughly malevolent Ernesto was. I was spoiled for him being the antagonist, but I thought he'd just be a rude, stuck-up douche as is typical of Broken Pedestal stories, not an outright villain.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#270: Nov 29th 2017 at 6:32:01 PM

[up]What's really insidious is that it's almost the opposite. At first he really does seem to be everything Miguel imagined. His affability is what makes The Reveal that he's a fraud and a murderer all the more shocking.

edited 29th Nov '17 6:32:17 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#271: Nov 29th 2017 at 7:17:50 PM

Just saw it. Holy crap. The animation, THE MUSIC. I cried 4 times because it smacked me in the dead grandparent feels.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#272: Nov 29th 2017 at 7:37:44 PM

@Hamburger Time kind of assumed that Coco was never really head of the family. It may stretch credulity, but I think that by the time Imelda died Coco was already starting to have memory problems.

So would people consider this a musical? I mean the songs are both integral to the plot and actively move the story forward, but the music almost entirely diagetic.

edited 29th Nov '17 7:40:19 PM by BigMadDraco

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#273: Nov 29th 2017 at 7:43:04 PM

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Before the spoilers came out, I just thought Ernesto was going to be to Miguel what Gustav was to Remy. When the reveal happened, he's more like Charles Muntz. And one thing that differs Ernesto from Muntz is that from the beginning he was scum, and was willing to do anything to get to the top. While Muntz over the decades was maddened into villainy in order to prove he was right. Even though both of them are willing to murder to get what they want, if Muntz wasn't laughed out of the scientific community I actually think he would have remained sane and not cross the line.

edited 29th Nov '17 7:43:41 PM by firewriter

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#274: Nov 29th 2017 at 8:47:51 PM

He's an interesting villain, in that we see bad guys like him in other genres all the time but is something a novelty for a company like Disney/Pixar - kind of like how Hans from Frozen is a textbook evil Disposable Fiancée in a genre that doesn't usually do that kind of thing, except Ernesto is more interesting. He's essentially a murder mystery culprit: a successful paragon of the community who got where he based on a long buried murder, who becomes a Smug Snake about keeping his skeletons in his closet - pun intended - once the truth comes out.

I actually really like how hands off of an antagonist he is towards the end: the heroes don't have to defeat him in a pitched epic battle of good vs evil (and indeed, whenever it comes to fighting Ernesto falls like a house of cards), they just have to get the evidence from him (which, even better, they don't even want for the express purpose of exposing him) - but he has so much power.

edited 29th Nov '17 8:49:58 PM by KnownUnknown

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#275: Nov 29th 2017 at 11:33:04 PM

As someone said, Ernesto can be seen as a topical villain character, due to corresponding with many powerful men, including Lasseter, being outed for their misconduct. It wasn't Pixar's intention, but I do think there is something poetic about how a celebrity being revealed to be not what he seems behind closed doors.

As said above, Ernesto has power and he can use any resources to save his behind while Hector throughout it all has nothing that can really help him. It's really a Goliath vs David situation, and worst of all I think Ernesto would have actually been happy if his former friend faded away which means then there would be finally no one who could prove his start on murder.


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