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Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3251: May 13th 2023 at 2:14:31 PM

Small details easy to miss, but Charmy has grown taller before whenever she gets serious. And the wolf inside the sheep was hinted back in Underwater Temple.

Huh. I always took the former as just an example of an art shift, not foreshadowing. I remembered the latter but I didn't think much of it at the time.

Roses-Kl Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#3252: May 13th 2023 at 2:16:47 PM

I think other characters have noticed the actual change in height in Charmy getting taller when she gets serious, but don't quote me on that aha.

she/her
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3253: May 13th 2023 at 5:59:34 PM

Hmm...so I'm at the part where the *other* big twist happen: a Devil had manipulated the situation between the Elves and Humans to instigate the Elven genocide and then performed the reincarnation spell to instigate a further genocide of humans.

Now, this doesn't quite absolve the humans of their role in the genocide (or, more specifically, the nobles). The Wizard King of the time was still innocent (and frankly it did feel off that he'd supposedly be part of the genocide) and the nobles were pretty easy to talk into doing this heinous act. But still...I dunno, there's all this buildup going on and then bam, last minute twist villain. There'd been foreshadowing with Asta's Black form and other stuff, so it's not out of the blue, but it feels...I dunno. I'm gonna keep reading to see how this plays out.

KhunRun Manga Brainrot 🦋 Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Manga Brainrot 🦋
#3254: May 13th 2023 at 7:06:38 PM

Yeah I agree to an extent... during my read picked up on the foreshadowing before with all the inconsistencies between different characters about what went down with the elf genocide but still liked it more when Patry/Licht, who I found compelling, was (seemingly) the main antagonist. The Word Devil itself is used more as a plot twist and to help transition into devils being the focus of the next saga. You're almost done with Elf Reincarnation tho so hope you enjoy the last of the ride!!

she/her
Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#3255: May 13th 2023 at 7:47:12 PM

Yeah, didn't really like that twist either. While the nobles being dicks does soften the blow a little, having a totally unknown third party being suddenly revealed as the mastermind is a bit underwhelming.

Although the Julius vs. Licht/Patry fight is still a big highlight of the series even years later.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3256: May 13th 2023 at 9:03:06 PM

Especially after you realize that things would have been way better off if Patry had managed to actually kill Julius.

Edited by M84 on May 14th 2023 at 12:03:18 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3257: May 13th 2023 at 9:18:50 PM

The fact this is presented as absolving the humans is why it doesn’t work for me. They wanted the power to rule over humans and view themselves as superior to everyone else, and that’s exactly how the Kingdom is.

The fact the story doesn’t have the Kingdom confront said past and a group who were Anti-Monarchy were struck down in the aftermath of the Elf battle while doing nothing to change the Monarchy IS Shit, is part of why the genocide was done so poorly.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 13th 2023 at 9:20:54 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3258: May 13th 2023 at 10:36:41 PM

The fact this is presented as absolving the humans is why it doesn’t work for me. They wanted the power to rule over humans and view themselves as superior to everyone else, and that’s exactly how the Kingdom is.

Eh, after reading it the whole way through, I think it's clear Tabata is using it as something more metaphorical. The big themes of Black Clover are hate, divide, prejudice, and how even those on the lowest dredges of society are worth something. As such, the elven genocide and the Word Devil's manipulations are meant to represent hatred itself, and Asta represents bringing people together. It's certainly, in many parts, a worldview I find naive in many regards (and it's kind of noticeable that nothing really changes about the Clover Kingdom after cuz whoops, new plot, moving on now), but this is also a manga meant for teenage boys so it's not like I can go all twentieth-century Marxist criticizing it tongue

But anyways, I got done with Volume 23, ending right before the timeskip! I'm gonna take a brief pause here but I'll try and delve into all my thoughts on these arcs and what I thought of this portion of the manga overall. I'm going off what the wiki and other sites define as the various arcs, I don't know how official this is.

Magic Knights Entrance Arc: This one was...alright. It's a slow buildup. Nice display of Asta as the main character, nice introduction to Julius, and Magna is pretty good here as the first member of the Black Bulls to get focus outside of Asta, Noelle, and Yami.

Dungeon Exploration Arc: So...I've seen this arc praised as being when Black Clover starts getting "good" but I honestly didn't like this one that much? I still don't know what Klaus's deal is, he's a total meh character to me even after everything, and I've mentioned how I just don't really care for Yuno most of the time. Didn't care for Mars, either. Noelle and Mimosa don't really come into their own until later. But hey, it's got Luck, and Luck is great.

Royal Capital Assault Arc: This was definitely when the first glimpses of how brilliant Black Clover could be started to cross my mind. Great introduction to some of the captains, a bit of building up the Eye of the Midnight Sun, Fuegoleon is fucking great, Noelle gets some buildup with her character, fucking ZOMBIES and shit...yeah, this is a good arc. I think if I had to complain, it's that some of the antagonists were still a lil' one-note (that one witch lady never shows up again after this) and I...still don't get Leo. He's pretty one-note compared to his siblings.

Eye of the Midnight Sun Encounter Arc: ...I hate Gauche but even I gotta admit his mirror magic shit is good. Beyond him, this arc is mostly great! More epic action, some cute romance stuff with Asta and that one girl, Asta just continues being a good boy (seeing him with those kids and being a total sweet guy is when I went from enjoying him to ADORING him, that purehearted boy), and then Yami coming in for the climax (plus JACK THE RIPPER I FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT HIM BEFORE I LOVE THAT PSYCHO MANTIS BASTARD). Oh, and Sally! Fucking love Sally! Psycho mad scientist characters are my jam.

Seabed Temple Arc: Noelle gets some time to shine, there's some great worldbuilding with the Seabed Temple, some cool new characters, and Asta gets a great fight at the end...even if it fucks him up. Oof. Pretty good arc, though not my favorite.

Witches' Forest Arc: Most of this arc is SO FUCKING GREAT. Vanessa's backstory and the worldbuilding with the witches, the humor with the various Black Bulls trying to find ways to help Asta heal his arms, more Midnight Sun stuff, revelations of Asta's powers, the whole climax with Vanessa awakening new powers to save her friends from her shitty mom...it's a shame that this arc is where Tabata, for whatever fucking reason, decided to dump a few characters from a light novel I have not read (nor do I wish to read it) and give them a bunch of focus that distracts from the arc. Also Mars is back. Still don't care about him.

Royal Knights Arc: MEREOLEONA, MEREOLEONA, MEREOLEONA. Also *GOD* the matches are so good. Zora's great, Mimosa and Finral really come into their own here, Noelle gets some GOOD shit against Solid. If anything, I kinda wish it had gone on even longer.

Elf Reincarnation Arc: HOLY GODDAMN SHIT. Overall, THIS is my favorite arc, just because the action moments are some of my favorites. The fight with the elf-possessed Luck, Noelle going Valkyrie, Henry turning the Black Bull mansion into a GODDAMNED MECHA, and hell, even the aftermath when Asta's on trial and the Black Bulls just burst into the fucking Parliament...True Companions describes these fuckers to a fucking T. This arc is just Tabata going "Fuck it, let's give EVERYONE some crazy shit, even if it comes right the fuck out of nowhere" and it works.

But then there's the thing I'd already complained about: the third-act switch in antagonist from Patry to the Word Devil. Now don't get me wrong, I *do* like a lot of the stuff in the third act. The original Wizard King returning and the big twist with Nero, the sheer crazy shit they have to pull to stop the Word Devil, the increased focus on the devil within Asta, and even Asta finally confronting Patry (legit a super emotional scene), but the Word Devil is just...not an interesting antagonist. And I guess the end feels pretty fast when it shifts from all the elf stuff to the devils. Not a lot of breathing room to settle the sheer apocalyptic aftermath of the elf attack, even with the consequences of shit like Julius being de-aged and weakened.

Overall? Once it takes off, it REALLY takes off, though there's a few characters I just don't really care much about (seriously, baffled by the light novel characters getting thrown into an arc). Definitely a bit naive in its themes but it's so damn endearing and sincere that I love reading it anyways. Really eager to see what the next arcs are up to.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#3259: May 13th 2023 at 10:45:24 PM

With the light novel guys at least the anime did adapt the novel but only as a highly condensed flashback

So the same effect is still there cause its like Asta meets these guys we've never seen before and we get a flashback showing an encounter that was never mentioned before

Which is notable since this is technically the origin where Asta learned swordsmanship to use the divider

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Roses-Kl Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#3260: May 13th 2023 at 11:18:35 PM

Wheeew thanks for the thoughts Diana! Agree with a lot of your points. I have mostly the same arcs as my favorites Elf Reincarnation and Royal Knights for similar reasons you mentioned, though I personally prefer Underwater Temple over Witches Forest but both are great to me.

But wow over 220 chapters read, you'll probably be caught up sooner or later especially before the final arc ends which doesn't seem like anytime that soon especially with the serialization breaks. Page count per chapter is consistently shorter after the time skip by the way (likely coinciding with when Tabata's daughter was born) so it'll probably be a faster read.

she/her
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3261: May 21st 2023 at 9:21:10 AM

New Chapter: Noelle's dragon armour look awesome.

Roses-Kl Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#3262: May 21st 2023 at 10:25:09 AM

All that dragon symbolism and Sea Dragon spell naming led up to this, and it tied all back to the Underwater Temple and Kahono where her journey really began taking off. My girl looks sick, and finally has her own cute familiar too!

she/her
TwistedWanderland Since: Jun, 2022
#3263: May 21st 2023 at 3:27:00 PM

Noelle our queen has done it again! I was wondering how she would catch up to Asta and Yuno now that she no longer has Undine, but wow, I was not expecting her next power up to come from the Undersea Temple’s Sea God, let alone gaining him as a partner.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3264: May 21st 2023 at 3:33:01 PM

Kick your mom's ass Noelle. You can do it.

One Strip! One Strip!
KhunRun Manga Brainrot 🦋 Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Manga Brainrot 🦋
#3265: May 21st 2023 at 3:52:56 PM

The Sea Goddess epithet became literal after gaining the power of the Underwater Temple's Sea God!! Comes full circle... devils for Asta, fairies for Yuno, dragons for Noelle...

she/her
ShonenTrash98 (Troper Journeyman) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#3266: May 22nd 2023 at 7:53:57 PM

Always knew Noelle would get a draconic Valkyrie Armor, carrying the Silva legacy on her back make your mom proud by putting her back in the grave

Edited by ShonenTrash98 on May 22nd 2023 at 7:54:23 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3267: May 22nd 2023 at 8:21:16 PM

To be honest when she got Valkyrie dress my first thought was either a Pegasus fitting with modern media depiction of Valkyries….or a big badass wolf with wings like myth Valkyries.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 22nd 2023 at 8:21:37 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3268: May 22nd 2023 at 8:33:30 PM

It needed to keep some connection to the water motif she had going for her, though. And wolves are already covered by Charmy.

Disgusted, but not surprised
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3269: May 22nd 2023 at 8:41:32 PM

Pegasi-Kelpies. There solved!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 22nd 2023 at 8:41:59 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#3270: May 22nd 2023 at 10:21:39 PM

I like how Noelle is absolutely heartbroken at first, but ends up psyching herself up through her own determination, no Rousing Speech needed.

Lots of people before have said Noelle is one of their favorite characters, and I can see why; She's the love interest to Asta, but not to the point where she has no desires outside of him. She has her own ambitions, her own character arc, and wins her own battles. She's her own character, and she kicks ass.

My only quibble is the really unsubtle hints that this teenage girl isn't wearing a bra and has nothing under her short skirts. That part's kinda skeezy.

Edited by Dracoblade on May 22nd 2023 at 10:22:36 AM

Sailor11sedna Since: Aug, 2011
#3271: May 24th 2023 at 12:08:19 AM

A lot of male manga writers could take a hint from Tabata-sensei on how to write women. Just place them in the backdrop of their circumstances and let the motivations do the rest. Even characters like Charlotte; she’s trying to be strong and break the curse on her own and keep love out of the equation because she doesn’t realize yet that love isn’t a sign of weakness. Even Sol is probably the victim of her own backstory and trying to prove herself. Women in Tabata’s world aren’t vain, empty headed, or allowing love to be the only thing that drives them. They have dreams of their own.

Unrelated, I worry about Magna in this arc. His best spell may not work on the reborn. And those who are still alive will be so stoked about being reborn that they’ll just… pull the plug.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3272: May 24th 2023 at 12:12:56 AM

Magna doesn't have access to his best spell anymore anyway. Remember that his Soul Chain Death Match is an extremely complex array of spells that takes six months to prepare and can only be used once. I don't think enough time has passed between his fight with Dante and now for him to have prepared the array again. Unless he's found a way to recreate it even faster.

Edited by M84 on May 25th 2023 at 3:13:25 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
NeoTerraKnight Since: Apr, 2014
#3273: May 24th 2023 at 1:01:29 AM

[up] To be frank, he had plenty of time following the two-year timeskip.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3274: May 24th 2023 at 1:03:13 AM

Fifteen months, but that is still enough time to have recreated the array.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#3275: May 24th 2023 at 4:25:46 PM

He mentioned something about "special training" in the short time we saw him, so perhaps he's spent the last year-and-some honing his glyphs to get stronger, or made different ones that aren't so time-consuming.

We'll find out, I guess. Remember, most the Black Bulls are still MIA.


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