Follow TV Tropes

Following

Official China Discussion Thread

Go To

Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 3rd 2018 at 10:19:03 PM

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180904_01/

China's praising African countries that have decided to end relations with Taiwan. He also... promised some economic perks in the summit.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 5th 2018 at 6:16:03 PM

An analysis of countries that are in the Chinese debt trap. Just be warned about the comments in there that seem to think that the video is double standards.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
FluffyMcChicken Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now from where Dicky can get Tricky with you! Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now
Sep 6th 2018 at 10:12:56 AM

The premise seems obvious, but the article gives out a lot of detailed information specifically pertaining to the extent of Chinese cyberespionage:

Newsweek: China Is Using Cyberespionage Against U.S. to Gain Military and Technology Advantages, Report Reveals

Chinese cyberespionage costs U.S. companies an estimated $300 billion annually and comprises the "single greatest threat to U.S. technology," according to a new report by the Washington, D.C-based think tank Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

China is using its vast cyberespionage capabilities to steal intellectual property from U.S. businesses, gain the upper hand in economic negotiations, and put pressure on foreign governments, according to the report. These activities have allowed China to advance rapidly, overtake the U.S. in certain key industries and even gain some military advantages.

"For years, the Chinese government has engaged in cyber-enabled economic espionage and other covert and clandestine activities to strengthen China's economic competitiveness and strategic position. China is estimated to be responsible for 50 to 80 percent of cross-border intellectual property theft worldwide, and over 90 percent of cyber-enabled economic espionage in the United States," the report noted.

China employs around 30,000 military cyber spies and around 150,000 private sector cyber experts who aim to steal U.S. military and technological secrets, according to FBI estimates. In June, for example, it was revealed that Chinese hackers had successfully breached a private military contractor and stole large quantities of data that revealed details of U.S. plans for underwater warfare.

Another recent example was the case of Chinese hackers based in China's Tsinghua University who probed U.S companies and the Alaskan state government for vulnerabilities in the wake of a visit to China by a U.S. trade delegation. Researchers claimed the hackers were looking for ways to gain inside information that would give China an advantage in trade negotiations.

"For China, there are levels of economic and industrial espionage. There's also the technique of gaining access to non-public knowledge and using that to their benefit in trade negotiations. We've seen this in Alaska," Priscilla Moriuchi, director of strategic threat development at Massachusetts-based tech company Recorded Future and former threat manager for East Asia and Pacific at the National Security Agency (NSA), told Newsweek.

"After a company makes overtures to China, about a joint venture or investment, you would see hackers targeting the server or executive to see what they thought of the meeting."

The report began by noting that the U.S. and China are currently locked in intense political, economic and military competition, and that Beijing's cyber capabilities are helping the country gain a strategic advantage. China is rapidly developing technologies that can be used for both commercial and military purposes, like artificial intelligence, facial recognition software, robotics and virtual reality. In August, China also conducted its first successful test of a hypersonic aircraft, which U.S. military experts warn could be used to penetrate U.S. missile defense systems.

Despite all that, economist and Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs argued that the U.S. foreign policy establishment is too preoccupied with competition and is missing important opportunities for cooperation.

"China is, in my view, a highly successful, highly productive, highly creative society and we should be working together to have strong mutual economic relations," Sachs told Newsweek. "We have tremendous opportunities. We're going to buy a lot of good products from China. We can build infrastructure and help each other. My view is that is what China wants. But the foreign policy establishment says China wants dominance. As an economist, I stand back and say, neither country will be dominant."

. . . How much is Xi paying you to say that Professor?

You can call me queen bee . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeBihoUS3W8
M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 6th 2018 at 10:15:01 AM

Yeah, that jerk is definitely taking CCP money.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 6th 2018 at 11:08:35 PM

AJ got a documentary of the 6th regarding China on whether it has a part on pro-unification parties/individuals living in Taiwan.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
TerminusEst from Finland
Sep 6th 2018 at 11:20:47 PM

[up][up]

He doesn't need to. In End of Poverty he praises China (and India) for lifting some 300 million from extreme poverty. Eradication of poverty is his pet project, so he probably sees the internal result and cares little for the geopolitical strategy China is enacting.

Forgetting that the CCP caused the problems in the first place.

Edited by TerminusEst on Sep 6th 2018 at 11:20:56 AM

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Sep 7th 2018 at 8:24:07 AM

[up]Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you claiming that China created its poverty?

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
TerminusEst from Finland
Sep 7th 2018 at 8:35:45 AM

Talking about the impact of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution which severely set back both economical and cultural development. Not that they somehow invented poverty.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 7th 2018 at 10:47:49 AM

Yes, the CCP doesn't deserve praise for making a problem they created somewhat less shitty.

I said "less shitty" instead of "not shitty" because, well, poverty is still a serious issue in China.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:08:04 AM

I completely disagree, yes those are absolutely failures of PRC and should be talked about.

But when we're talking about how they brought millions of people out of poverty that's an incredibly weak rebuttal, poverty in China existed in great numbers long before they existed as an organization and thus it seems that regardless of one's view of the CCP it's not intellectually honest to ignore or downplay the good they have achieved.

I will also point out that acknowledging the good they achieved does not mean that one should ignore the very real issues, just that it doesn't strengthen one's positions to downplay what they've done.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 7th 2018 at 2:07:52 PM

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:17:14 AM

Can it really be attributed to the CCP specifically, as opposed to general trends in modernization? It can be argued that the CCP's policies may have actually hindered the war on poverty in China relative to a more liberal regime.

M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:21:01 AM

The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution made those problems much worse. One should not praise the CCP for alleviating the problem they exacerbated in the first place. If it had been another party that caused the problem first, it would have been justified. But that is not the case.

At the very least, frame it as them learning some harsh lessons from their fuck ups.

[up]This too.

Edited by M84 on Sep 8th 2018 at 2:21:03 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:22:34 AM

[up][up]It's a good point that we shouldn't give all the credit to them, but at the same time if we're going to blame them for China's woes it's only fair to give them some tentative credit for its successes.

Because frankly I know that people here would blame them if it was going economically poorly.

[up]I disagree, yes making those problems worse is something that they should be criticized but fixing their mistakes and improving things is also something that should be acknowledged if you're being fair.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 7th 2018 at 2:25:29 PM

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:27:26 AM

The problem is when it is framed as them being heroes alleviating poverty, as that one professor does. Ignoring the context that they made the problem so much worse in the first place and millions starved to death as a result.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Sep 7th 2018 at 11:41:13 AM

[up]That's fair, their praise was at-least somewhat selective.

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Sep 7th 2018 at 8:51:41 PM

Praising someone for fixing their mistakes is done differently from praising someone for something they had no role in starting. Both deserve praise, but itís a different kind of praise.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 7th 2018 at 9:09:11 PM

The difference is that the former requires acknowledging the mistakes in the first place.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 17th 2018 at 8:31:43 PM

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2164592/china-declares-vostok-2018-war-games-success-troops-are

PLA observers in Vostok 2018 have praised it for giving their contingent good experience alongside the Russians and Mongolians.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
Sep 19th 2018 at 3:45:22 PM

Crossposting from the East Asia thread:

China's concentration camps

China has a secret thatís slowly slipping out: roughly a million Uighurs are being held in ďreeducation campsĒ. Gulchehra Hoja, a Uighur journalist, explains how reporting on Chinaís human rights abuses against Muslims led to the disappearance of 23 of her relatives.

It's a 24 minute podcast.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite. "The wheel will turn ever more, but I see pain. I see victory, but pain.
FluffyMcChicken Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now from where Dicky can get Tricky with you! Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now
Sep 19th 2018 at 5:18:46 PM

God help them all, the CCP is quite literally only one more stage away from opting for a "final solution" if they just lose patience one day.

You can call me queen bee . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeBihoUS3W8
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 22nd 2018 at 10:08:59 PM

Something about secret Beijing-Vatican negotiations:

The landmark deal between China and the Vatican is a win for Beijing, giving official recognition to bishops appointed by the government despite a crackdown on religion, and potentially softening the ground for full diplomatic relations after 67 years of estrangement, analysts said.

The two sides signed a provisional agreement on Saturday on who gets to name senior churchmen, an issue that has bedevilled ties for decades, and China quickly said it hoped for an improvement in relations.

That is bound to mean consequences for self-ruled Taiwan, which Beijing considers a renegade province, and which has watched helplessly in recent years as its giant neighbour has picked off its few remaining diplomatic partners.

With its outsized international influence, the Vatican is the most important of Taiwan's 17 remaining friends, and its only European partner.

The agreement on bishops makes no mention of diplomatic relations, but some see the writing on the wall.

"It's difficult not to see this as the first step towards a switch," said Jonathan Sullivan, a China expert at the University of Nottingham.

"It's not on the cards yet, but Beijing has made no secret of its desire to poach Taiwan's most important remaining ally."

Ying Fuk-tsang, a professor of divinity at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, said Beijing is bound to use any new leverage to seek the Holy See's recognition.

The current Taiwan government has taken a toughened line against Beijing, which knows that turning the Vatican would be "a major blow to Taiwan's diplomacy," Ying said.

- 'Sinicisation' of religion -

Beijing and the Vatican severed ties in 1951, two years after the Communist Party seized power.

The party tolerates no alternative power centres and a decades-long impasse has played out over who presides over the now roughly 12 million-strong Catholic faithful — communist-approved prelates or those who preach to "underground" pro-Rome churches.

Since taking office in 2013, Pope Francis has sought to improve ties with China.

As part of the deal, the pope recognised seven Beijing-appointed bishops. No other details were disclosed.

The apparent Vatican concession is striking because it comes as China is waging a broad religious crackdown.

President Xi Jinping has moved aggressively to tighten the Communist Party's grip on all aspects of society, including worship.

Top leaders have recently called for the "Sinicisation" of religion, code for greater party control.

In China's remote western Xinjiang region, UN estimates say one million members of Muslim minorities are held in internment camps where rights groups say they face communist indoctrination.

Christian worshippers and clergy in central China told AFP recently that "illegal" churches were being raided or bulldozed, and religious materials confiscated.

Churches have been required to display the national flag while removing religious imagery from public-facing spaces, and paperwork seen by AFP shows clergy are being pressured to divulge personal information about parishioners.

Underground clergy told AFP they remain fearful because the agreement does not mention safeguards for them or their followers, with one priest saying worshippers "doubt the sincerity" of the government.

An official priest in close contact with the underground community said that while the deal solves the problem of the seven bishops, it says nothing about how future bishops will be appointed.

"And it cannot solve the real problem and situation of the church."

- 'Not a zero-sum game' -

China's religious crackdown has drawn growing overseas criticism, with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Friday deploring "awful abuses" in Xinjiang.

He added that Christians were suffering too as authorities are "closing churches, burning Bibles" or forcing them "to renounce their faith."

But Francesco Sisci, an Italian Sinologist at China's Renmin University, said a rapprochement could provide the Vatican with now-scarce leverage in China because it will now get at least some recognition from Beijing.

"It's not a football match, it's not a zero-sum game. Both sides hopefully gained a lot in this," Sisci said.

"It is true that dozens of churches are being torn down, at least partially. But thousands more are standing or being built."

"It will be not be easy, but if the Vatican doesn't try to help now, when should it?"

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Sep 25th 2018 at 5:16:09 PM

A major update:

Pope Francis said on Tuesday that he will have the last word on naming bishops in China after a "bilateral dialogue" on candidates, days after an historic accord paved the way for rapprochement between the Vatican and the Communist country.

Roman Catholics belonging to the underground church in China that recognises only the authority of the Vatican will also "suffer" because of the deal signed on Saturday, the pope admitted aboard the plane flying back after a visit to the Baltic states.

"It's not just about nominations, this is a dialogue about possible candidates. It's done through dialogue," Francis told journalists aboard his plane. "But Rome names (the bishops). The pope names them. That's clear."

Beijing and the Vatican on Saturday announced a provisional deal on who appoints bishops in the world's most populous country.

Shortly afterwards Pope Francis recognised seven clergy appointed by Beijing, which has not had ties with the Vatican since 1951.

There are an estimated 12 million Catholics in China, divided between a government-run association whose clergy are chosen by the Communist Party and an unofficial church which swears allegiance to the Vatican.

The Vatican had not yet released details of the accord and had avoided mentioning the process through which future bishops would be nominated.

"My thoughts are with the resistance, the Catholics who have suffered, it's true," the pope said of the Chinese underground church.

"And they will suffer. There's always suffering in an accord."

Pope Francis has sought to improve relations with China since he took office in 2013, but previous attempts foundered over Beijing's insistence that the Vatican give up recognition of Taiwan and promise not to interfere in domestic religious issues.

The Holy See is one of only 17 countries that recognise Taiwan, officially known as the Republic of China, instead of diplomatic ties with Beijing.

The breakthrough came as churches have been destroyed in some Chinese regions in recent months, and there has been a clampdown on Bible sales. Crosses have been removed from church tops, printed religious materials and holy items confiscated, and church-run kindergartens closed.

Following the announcement, the pontiff recognised seven bishops who had been ordained in China without the approval of the Holy See.

The pope also posthumously recognised an eighth bishop who "had expressed the desire to be reconciled with the Apostolic See" before he died last year, it said.

The Vatican cut ties with Beijing two years after the founding of the communist People's Republic.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Quag15 Portugal according to Hetalia from Portugal Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Portugal according to Hetalia
Sep 25th 2018 at 6:12:38 PM

I wonder if the Chinese thinkers within the Party studied the dechristianization process during the height of the French Revolution and thought: "You know, those westerners didn't went far enough".

Those who are free from common prejudices acquire others.- Napoleon Bonaparte Tropers Riffing Movies
M84 Freedom is the right of all sentient beings Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
Sep 25th 2018 at 6:22:35 PM

Again, if the pope thinks a deal with a gov't that is already at the "church burning" phase is going to work out, he's being a tad naive.

Edited by M84 on Sep 25th 2018 at 9:24:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A*
Sep 28th 2018 at 11:17:14 AM

China raises its 2030 target for renewable energy to 35% up from 20%

Itís still not enough, but at least China and Europe are taking climate change seriously rather than trying to pretend itís a Hoax.


Top