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Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#76: May 31st 2018 at 2:31:48 PM

Of course it was Wicked. Disney really, really wanted to get their hands on the property - but they didn't (Universal has the rights) and so they decided to imitate it.

And at this point, frankly, the whole thing seems rather unneeded. What Wicked did has been done to death since it came out. Surely we don't need to mooch off that one more time?

edited 31st May '18 2:32:22 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77: May 31st 2018 at 2:58:43 PM

...should I ask what the racist elements of Maleficent were?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#78: May 31st 2018 at 3:07:57 PM

[up][up]Well, what Wicked did has been done to death, but not nearly as much in the mainstream. I mean, we still haven't even gotten the Wicked movie yet...

I hate Maleficent, but not to an extreme degree. I just think its poorly written, poorly developed, and defangs a villain that really shouldn't be defanged since her ENTIRE appeal is just how wicked and evil she is. Why remove that?

Personally I hate the Alice in Wonderland movies far more. That film makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79: May 31st 2018 at 3:16:56 PM

[up][up] It's the sexism which bothers me, not racism. I just tried to put my feelings in terms that someone who might be more in tune with the latter than the former might understand.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#80: May 31st 2018 at 3:18:09 PM

Fair enough.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#81: May 31st 2018 at 8:32:12 PM

Aurora has always been one of my favourite classic Princesses, despite how little she is in the movie, purely from a design standpoint. I always wanted to see a movie that gave more focus to her instead.

Maleficent gives her some focus, but does so in the form of live-action, while fitting the tightest leather pants on one of Disney's best big bads (played by an acctress I find overrated as hell).

That this movie is set to get a sequel just deflates me.

edited 31st May '18 8:33:35 PM by MrSeyker

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#82: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:07:30 AM

I never watched Sleeping Beauty (and persistently got it's characters and plot mixed up with those of Snow White). It feels like one of the lesser-known Disney films. I think it barely got a mention in Kingdom Hearts which is naturally the scale I use to determine how popualr these movies are.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#83: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:12:20 AM

If I recall correctly, Sleeping Beauty was originally a flop but it became more popular over the years, especially due to an advertising bump for it from the theme park.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#84: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:40:47 AM

[up] Kind of, but it is misleading. The "issue" with Sleeping Beauty is that it had what you would call today a very troubled production. Basically Walt Disney kind of hated that only a fraction of the concept art Mary Blair did for Alice in Wonderland was actually reflected in the movie. So he put an artist instead of an animator in charge for Sleeping Beauty. That lead to all kind of problems, because said artist focussed above all on the (very detailed) background, leaving it to the animators to somehow figure out how to put characters into said background without it looking weird. And then add to this that back then, the movies were completely hand-painted, there weren't any computers or short cuts.

Long story short, the movie blew its entire budget just on the dancing scene in the forest. The production time was double as long as it was usual. And then the voice actress for Aurora managed to blow out her voice which lead somehow to them not being able to use the voice actor of Phillip for the second half of the movie because of some weird contract. It was the epitome of a trouble production and that attached to a movie project which set the bar ridiculously high in the first place.

So, yeah, Sleeping Beauty was a financial flop, but it was also one of the highest grossing movies of the year, so it was ALSO a success with the audience (though not necessarily with the critics who were moaning about Disney doing another fairy tale movie). It recouped it's losses through rereleases and home video eventually, and it ended up being the last movie Disney made which was completely hand-painted.

All this makes Sleeping Beauty unique even before we get to the actual story. It is a moving masterpiece and nobody ever will again do a movie like this (though last years Loving Vincent attempted something in this direction).

indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#85: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:41:54 AM

Sleeping Beauty has a somewhat slower pace which doesn't make for much of a theatrical experience, but it's great as a home video film.

As for Maleficent, I kinda liked it... even if the title character has scarcely anything to do with the one from the original film. Would've worked miles better as a Shrek-style standalone tale. Beyond that, there's really not that much to hate as opposed to ignore. It's not like it has spawned a wave of villain-focused perspective flips. Nobody's making Jafar: Arcane Arabic Adventurer Archaeologist or Shan Yu: Badass Conqueror... although Gaston: Monster Hunter might actually work.

I also like the heretofore concept for the sequel, bitter enemies mending fences and all that. That's not something seen often in films to begin with, let alone the usually black and white morality-featuring Disney fare.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:45:53 AM

[up] WTF? As someone who has seen the movie initially on home video but was able to see it in the big screen during its last rerelease I have to dispute this claim. Just imagine how impressive it is if you sit in the seats and then suddenly Maleficent turns into a dragon...I knew it was coming and I nevertheless ended up leaning back in my seat because it was so intimidating if you see it in full seize. And all the details...honestly, a lot of the artistry is lost if you see it on TV. This is a big screen movie, everything else is like looking at the photo of an artpiece instead of the actual thing.

indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#87: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:56:08 AM

Well, for those of us under a socialist embargo at the time, it was sadly limited to being a great home video film. Though I reckon it actually speaks highly of its quality that it was still enjoyable on a grainy bootleg dub where precisely the aforementioned artistry was barely to be seen.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:00:34 AM

[up] Oh, that is one of the cases in which the west didn't have an advantage....the movie was in the vault back then. You couldn't really get a hand on it legally until it was released on VHS is which was, if I remember correctly, shortly after the wall went down...

My bootleg was pretty good, though.

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#89: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:20:41 AM

A sequel nobody needs to a movie nobody needed.

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#90: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:35:56 PM

Shan Yu: Badass Conqueror would be awesome. For some reason, I just love crackshipping him with Mulan. Also Mongolian culture rarely gets focused on in fiction, except when it used for fictional cultures.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#91: Jun 11th 2018 at 6:02:08 PM

I recently read the Sleeping Beauty book in the A Tale of... series and it's interesting comparing it's version of Maleficent with Maleficent's version. I prefer the Maleficent version. She's soft, yes, but she feels more in-character and less angsty.

I really, really liked Maleficent, and I wish the other Disney live action films were also reimaginings and not remakes, but I can't see anywhere for the story to go.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#93: Mar 9th 2019 at 5:07:48 PM

The first one was visually stunning with an emotionally hefty performance from Jolie, but was otherwise a messy smear of crap. Hopefully the sequel is everything the first could have been. Disney makes really awful sequels most of the time, and is very hit or miss with these live adaptations of their animated classics. For every 101 Dalmations or Beauty and the Beast we get a dreadful Alice in Wonderland or Maleficent which ruin everything beautiful or charming about the original while pushing a confusing theme of depression meets bubble-gum.

The problem with the first one was they went too far trying to turn Maleficent into some feminist hero. Maleficent is supposed to be one of the most evil and fearsome Disney villains, and she pretty much wasn’t evil at all in the first film. She was the hero who saved the day. It was extremely disappointing. And now this sequel is called Mistress of ‘Evil?’ I’m not getting my hopes up for this.

I am assuming this sequel will feature Maleficent in another heroic role, possibly battling against Michelle Pfeiffer, who will most likely frame Maleficent for something.

I wasn't that bothered by Maleficent as a heroic figure. I bought her motivation against the king. What I hated was how they belittled the other fairies as deeply stupid, and didn't have Maleficent become the dragon.

Exactly. I love Maleficent the original animated character. She's awesome. She's pure evil, takes great joy in being evil, and is just a whole lot of fun. Sure, you can give her a backstory, though it wasn't necessary. But making her "actually good all along?" That was really dumb.

Only now does it occur to me that I've never actually seen all of Sleeping Beauty and never really had any basis on which to grade this film beyond Maleficent's character in Kingdom Hearts.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#94: Mar 9th 2019 at 9:37:39 PM

I can't take "this movie is trying too hard to be feminist" seriously as a criticism.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#95: Mar 9th 2019 at 10:39:15 PM

My main issue with the movie is that it was just sort of average besides Jolie's performance. It's not the worst I've ever seen, but it's not that great either.

Part of the appeal of Maleficent is that she was bone-deep evil and delighted being so, in a spectacularly entertaining and memorable way. That was a problem to begin with; a Maleficent movie would, by default, have a Villain Protagonist, something that Disney pretty much never does. Disney's solution to this was to simply make her the hero instead, which feels like a cop-out and misses what made the original so well-liked.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 9th 2019 at 2:44:49 PM

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#96: Mar 9th 2019 at 11:43:50 PM

I just now hear this movie got a sequel. Like... why? Isn't the last one already book ended it pretty good?

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#97: Mar 10th 2019 at 3:48:14 AM

The last one made a lot of money and according to Disney logic, that's grounds for a sequel. Whether or not it will be a good sequel remains to be seen.

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#98: Mar 11th 2019 at 5:46:05 PM

[up][up][up][up]That's one of my genuine problems with the movie, honestly. And the way it does so is filled with so many bad implications. For example, the way they shoot Maleficent having her wings stolen from her is intentionally reminiscent of a woman getting roofied and violated. And then they use it as her motivation for turning evil. A lot of survivors, myself included, found it pretty tasteless even though it's trying hard to be some kind of grand gurl power statement.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#99: Mar 11th 2019 at 5:52:50 PM

To me it is the opposite of feminist. It is just insulting. The original Sleeping Beauty is actually a pretty feminist movie.

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#100: Mar 11th 2019 at 5:57:08 PM

The animated movie gets an unfairly bad reputation for a lot of criticisms that are pretty unfounded, like "the main character is asleep the whole time." The three good fairies and Maleficent are the actual main characters. Aurora is more a less a pawn in the battle of good vs evil, which is being fought between four middle aged women.

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."

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