TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Pick Up Arts: The causes of the fall, the hopes of redemption

Go To

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#76: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:28:31 AM

How about starting with learning how to recognize when someone is hitting on you, or the appropriate way to hit on someone? Also, dealing with rejection graciously. Everyone needs to know that stuff.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#77: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:34:42 AM

Googling "how to deal with rejection" turns up a lot of results, but given that some of them are called "the myth of rejection", I'm kind of afraid what we would find... I suppose the biggest part of the work wouldn't be to just collect stuff, but to sift the good from the garbage.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#78: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:39:00 AM

Confession time: I've looked into this myself, back when I needed it. One thing that nearly every manual, essay or research paper doesnt do is start at the beginning- they all seem to assume that you just pick someone you like and get that train started. I doubt it's that simple. Who do you approach and how? How do you recognize when someone is signalling approachability? How do you yourself signal that? The "hitting" process begins well before the two people actually begin talking.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#79: Jun 15th 2015 at 7:38:26 AM

Personnel rotation?

When people leave a company. Rotation is intended to be kept low. You generally want to hire someone so they stay. If there is a high personnel rotation, it means people are coming and going and that involves a crapton of monetary loss.

Generally, people hiring someone out of sheer technical knowledge can tell if a person will be able to do his job. However, there is no training to recognize if the person will actually want to STAY at the job.

And again I make a comparison to education in social relationships: Sure, you can teach someone how to greet, recognize certain signs, or whatever. But when it comes to understanding what sort of context is the person involved in, personal and social, it is very vital to know how to reach a person and get them to understad basic fucking empathy vs "if she has her knees bent, it means she is interested in you".

Maybe I am not the best one to talk about this though. I am as socially skilled as a bottle of water and for fucks sake I will fucking call you out if we go to see a movie and you spend half of its time in the fucking cellphone seriously would make me more comfortable if you slapped me and told me you werent interested in me and left (I will even still give you a ride home after that) but come on.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#80: Jun 15th 2015 at 8:15:56 AM

[up][up]Because dating say,manuals and all the jazz asume at first that you have some skill with the other sex at all, or that a least you have date, this is the biggest issue: many people asume that dating is something everybody have and if you done well....if you fault.

"This is when PUA would have come in handy. Basic skill: the ability to recognize an invitation when it's offered. A bit more advanced: the ability to choose quickly what to do about it, and act on one's choice without fear or embarrassment."

Something similar happen to me: when oen woman star hit on me I was like "wait....me? like....you know.....ME?" I cant do too much because I cant barely belive it, it was sad from my part

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#81: Jun 15th 2015 at 12:00:18 PM

Again, that's pure Thomas Mann syndrome.

Man, I hate Thomas Mann. He's like a wicked, twisted mirror of my weaker, lonelier, past self that I've been working so hard to overcome and leave behind.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#82: Jun 15th 2015 at 12:26:28 PM

I think part of the problem is that people are looking in the wrong place, when people come up and flirt with you based just on your appearance and without knowing you at all they're probably after a one night stand, that's what singles bars are for and such.

However the folks in need of advise don't seem to be after that, they want a relationship and the rules are very different there. With a relationship you're looking at the possibility of something long term with someone you know in a non-romantic context on some level, with a hook-up you're looking for someone physically attractive to much you genitalia together with.

PUA assumes that you only want the alter when I suspect that folks actually want the former, I can give advise on the former if people want though.

Though I will admit that I've fallen for Dear in the Headlights Syndrome before, being on a college trip and then suddenly having groupies is a weird experience.

edited 15th Jun '15 12:27:40 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#83: Jun 15th 2015 at 12:36:11 PM

I dunno, can one really plan these things out? I've already gotten romantically involved with a one-night-stand or two. We happened to like each other.

edited 15th Jun '15 12:38:08 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#84: Jun 15th 2015 at 1:14:41 PM

Plan what out? A one-night stand or a relationship? Yes a one-night stand can turn romantic but you're still fundamentally doing a very different thing, when you try and turn a one night stand into something romantic you're going back to the same old "I actually kinda know you and am interested in turning thsi into a romantic thing" thing.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#85: Jun 15th 2015 at 1:44:14 PM

Well, there's that, but there's also a more carnal "I can't get enough of you" thing that can happen too. A lot of ONS are disappointments, but sometimes...

[down]You should try A Long Slow Comfortable Screw Up Against the Wall.

edited 15th Jun '15 2:32:43 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#86: Jun 15th 2015 at 2:17:21 PM

I have two night stands. That is the closest I can get to collaborating in this discussion. I have lamps on top of them. And the books I read.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#87: Jun 15th 2015 at 3:31:21 PM

I'm going to suggest that drink to my girlfriend. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#88: Jun 15th 2015 at 3:36:11 PM

[up]This drink consists of Sloe Gin (hence the 'slow'), Southern Comfort (hence the 'comfortable'), Orange Juice (which is what makes a screwdriver a screwdriver and not merely a bloody big vodka; hence the 'screw'), a float of Galliano (which is in a Harvey Wallbanger; hence the 'up against the wall'), served in a long glass (hence... oh, work it out for yourself). I found out about it because of the Discworld version, a Slow Comfortable Double-Entendre With Lemonade.

[down]You should add a miniature railway. Then you'd have a

CHOO CHOO CHA'BOOGIE! CHOO CHOO CHA... CHOO CH.. CHOO CHA... Oh my.

edited 15th Jun '15 3:51:46 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#89: Jun 15th 2015 at 3:42:04 PM

I can put that drink in my night stand, sure. I don't see the purpose of it since I dislike alcohol. But ok, I can do it

edited 15th Jun '15 3:42:16 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#90: Jun 15th 2015 at 3:51:51 PM

So, I want to look at this dating advice from The Art of Manliness. Don't let the website name fool you, it's manliness like in Pacha, or Pa Kent, or Atticus Finch. Or Benjamin Franklin or Winston Churchill or Theodore Roosevelt, on the Real Life side of things.

But, really, just a look at the articles' titles should tell you everything as to what this is about. This website isn't for womanizers, it's for guys who're playing for keeps.

edited 15th Jun '15 3:56:05 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#91: Jun 15th 2015 at 8:31:52 PM

A selection of the articles' titles:

"Men & Dating: Why the Pick-Up Scene Gets it Wrong"

"How to Overcome Phone Shyness"

"Help for the Shy Guy: The Complete Guide to Overcoming Your Shyness"

"Ask a Woman on a Date [VIDEO]"

"How to Recover From a Bad First Impression"

...and so on (there are a lot more).

Seems to be an emphasis on overcoming shyness, which isnt a bad thing, but that isnt everyone's main problem.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#92: Jun 15th 2015 at 8:39:24 PM

No but it's a major problem that leads to the appearance of "Nice Guy" people, which is a big issue and people who might fall into that trap are probably the most likely to go online for advise. We need an alternative or such folks will get their 'advise' from the MRA and PUA communities.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#93: Jun 15th 2015 at 8:47:05 PM

I would say overcoming shyness is the problem of most single men. The problem is society does a poor job teaching men that. Most advice tends to be simple and unhelpful, in the vein of "man up and talk to her!" Which, aside from being simple, vague, and unhelpful, trivializes any issues a man in particular might be having to impede that.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#94: Jun 16th 2015 at 9:43:45 AM

There are quite a few whose problems are more fundemental than mere "shyness", and revolve around an inability to understand what other people expect of them in a wide variety of social situations, including potential romantic ones.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#95: Jun 16th 2015 at 9:47:06 AM

Empathy and expectations all play a role in this, more than social shyness, awkwardness, or social skills. People are more often willing to deal with coyness than they are with hostility, which is how many unempathic or entitled behaviors can come off as.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#96: Jun 16th 2015 at 8:10:32 PM

What is specifically helpful about the Pick Up movement that cannot be provided by basic social skills (which I agree are sorely needed, and not just for men)?

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#97: Jun 16th 2015 at 8:36:35 PM

[up] I suppose it also functions like a support group.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#98: Jun 16th 2015 at 8:47:14 PM

[up]This. Movements like these give people somewhere to talk about their problems, and improve. Of course, the flipside of that, is that said "movements" can swiftly turn into toxic cesspools with the same few bad ideas getting repeated again and again.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99: Jun 17th 2015 at 5:07:01 AM

Basic social skills however do tend to help you build your own circle of friends who can act as a support group, so I'm still not sold on the need for PU As.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#100: Jun 17th 2015 at 5:30:55 AM

You can create a network of support groups based on something healthier.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

Total posts: 125
Top