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Tangled: the Series

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AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#526: Apr 3rd 2020 at 4:13:20 PM

So, after finally getting around to watching Tangled last week, I decided to poke at the series. I'd heard it was pretty good, but, I mean, its a TV show based off a Disney movie. Traditionally, those have not had a particularly good reputation. So, I decided it was probably good in comparison.

Boy, did I underestimate it.

One week, two seasons, and as much chunks of season 3 that was on You Tube while I wait for the rest to hit Disney Plus, I can safely say I've become just a little obsessed. Its certainly in my top favorite animated series, up there with SW:TCW/SW:R and ATLA.

Was it perfect? Of course not. But it blew past most of my expectations, and stood really darn well on its own. Actually, my biggest gripe right now is that every new location makes my struggle to place where in Europe its supposed to take place that much harder.rant ahead 

Anyway, someone last page asked for favorite songs?

My favorite was "If I Could Take This Moment Back" for having the distinction of getting literal tears to roll down my face,note  followed by "Ready As I'll Ever Be", "Next Stop, Anywhere", and maybe "Life After Happily Ever After" in no particular order.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:14:35 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#527: Apr 3rd 2020 at 4:27:58 PM

[up] Aladdin the Series is regarded as really good!

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#529: Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:37:15 PM

...Okay, it appears Pop-Cultural Osmosis has failed me. I guess the point I was getting at, is I was expecting it to be a slightly above average series, not one of my favorites.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#530: Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:47:02 PM

Frankly, the only Disney TV show based off a movie I can't think of that was generally not that good was the Little Mermaid one. The Atlantis and Cinderella series weren't too good, but it's also important to note that neither actually made it to series - almost certainly in part because they weren't that good - so I don't know if they should count.

The only real problem with Hercules and Emperor's New School is that they make zero sense next to the canon of the movies they're based off of (which does hurt a little with the Kuzco show, as it requires him to go through Aesop Amnesia), and come off more as parodies than anything. Timon and Pumbaa was the same kind of show: using the characters for off the wall comedy. All of them are pretty good, if you like that kind of humor.

And the Aladdin show is one of the best movie adaptation series Disney's ever made, and still holds up to this day if you like episodic adventure series (also up there as really good: the Lilo and Stitch series) - and Tangled is even better.

Tangled the Series' basic idea tends to come off as "what if we did the same kind of show as Aladdin the Series, but with arcs instead of episodes?"

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:50:57 AM

Bornstellar Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#531: Apr 9th 2020 at 9:39:20 PM

I'm seriously convinced that Cassandra's "I love you, Raps" was her confessing a sort of romantic love to Rapunzel, that Raps took as platonic. I mean, the thing that really hits me is how Cassandra twitches her eye in that scene. Like for me, that scene is all but yelling out that Cass in totally in love with Rapunzel.

Neveratall Since: Apr, 2016
#532: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:49:12 PM

I knew some people would interpret it that way. But I love you doesn't always mean I'm in love with you.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#533: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:58:23 PM

The show has been very blatant in the last season about how Cass and Rapunzel have a sisterly love and dynamic with each other, not a romantic one, so yeah... it's almost certainly not meant to be seen that way.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#534: Apr 10th 2020 at 12:28:12 AM

[up]I hate to throw a Word of God on this, but, while never intended to go further than a slightly nodding subtext, one of the animators on the show is LGBT and she was always conscious of wlw frames and subtext with her animation of scenes with Cassandra and Rapunzel.

So... while the straight text of the show is purely platonic, there IS genuine subtext and evidence to show that the love could be a bit deeper.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#535: Apr 10th 2020 at 12:37:08 AM

On the other hand, "one of the animators was LGBT and appreciated the possibility" and "their relationship was written with LGBT subtext" are two very different things.

Most animated shows have situations where specific animators and writers have their own takes on how the characters are - especially ones that are characterization heavy, and have a large team like this show did. That's not the same thing as their specific takes being what the show ultimately presents.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 1:20:11 AM

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#536: Apr 10th 2020 at 2:03:08 AM

Yes, written that way and animated that way aren't the same thing. But saying "an animator appreciated the possibility" or "It's almost certainly not meant to be seen that way" aren't accurate and kind of reductive?

An animator is a creator and writer of this narrative, even if they didn't write the script. If a film director and actors come forward and say that they filmed a scene with a mindset, blocking, and framing of a romantic scene even though the literal text of the scene has none, it still has relevance to how the scene can be read? Or, an actual example, The Force Awakens has a scene where Finn offers to return Poe his jacket and Poe refuses saying it looks good on Finn. The actual script and the writer's intentions were never romantic. The actor, however, has said he played the character as having romantic interest in Finn and acted as such.

Maybe 'Word of God' was too strong a trope to name since it has so much finality to it, but there is no arguing that there is room to see that difference of relationship. In a book, the contributions to the story begin and end with the writer (with editor mixed in there somewhere but that's not the point). That isn't true of other mediums where there are so many creators working together with their own interpretations and presentations of the material. If an animator says she animated scenes as she would those with a romantic interest, that's something worthy of note.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#537: Apr 10th 2020 at 4:07:22 AM

An animator is a creator and writer of this narrative, even if they didn't write the script

This becomes a bit more complicated in a series with a lot of animators working on it - it's something you don't get in live action, but get a lot of in animation, especially nowadays where animated series are more explicitly creator driven (even tie-in series like these).

Animated series nowadays tend to have a head writer or animator whose vision is followed for the most part, who oversees the scripts and keeps the character/plot straight, etc, and then there's the multitude of other animators and writers who support that head writers. With Tangled the Series, the buck can effectively be considered to stop with Chris Sonnenburg and Shane Prigmore.

This is why, for example, most of the animators who worked on Steven Universe had very divergent beliefs of who the characters were, resulting in tons of comments where one writer said this or one artist said this and nothing came of it, because ultimately it was Rebecca Sugar whose vision held the most weight. And it's definitely disingenuous to claim that one of those specific writer/animator's takes was the true subtext of the series, and not what Sugar directed.

But yes, there are many situations in animation where a specific writer or animator sees something in the characters and leans into that with the scenes they specifically created. And there's still a difference between that, and that being the subtext of the series as a whole.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 4:09:18 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#538: Apr 10th 2020 at 4:36:18 AM

Gotta agree that a lot of the scenes between Rapunzel and Cassandra came off as very romantic, especially the ones where they straight up recreated previously romantic Rapunzel/Eugene scenes with Cassandra instead.

The "sisters" thing comes off as a thinly veiled "no homo", since Disney probably wouldn't let anything be explicit.

jessicadicicco610 Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#539: Apr 10th 2020 at 5:02:12 AM

Plus, given this show takes place after the movie but before the wedding, the Rapunzel/Cassandra pairing would be a no either way. Though of course there are those (mainly on Twitter) who thought Cassandra would get some kind of girlfriend.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#540: Apr 10th 2020 at 8:04:29 AM

I always figured a poly relationship wasn't out of the question.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Neveratall Since: Apr, 2016
#541: Apr 10th 2020 at 9:21:57 AM

[up]Considering this is a kids show, that was never going to happen. Hell, even most adult shows wouldn't touch that.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#542: Apr 10th 2020 at 10:57:58 AM

I always got the sense that Cass was crushing on Rapunzel at times, but with Rapunzel she always seemed to be acting with Cass as a sister figure. At least, that's how their interactions came off to me.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#543: Apr 10th 2020 at 12:45:21 PM

On a vaguely related note, it's kind of funny how singularly devoted to Eugene is to Rapunzel. Most of the Disney princes could - given the right circumstances - be led or conned into wavering a little (even Aladdin, otherwise one half of Disney's most cheesily lovey-dovey couple, had the occasional wandering eye).

GlitterCat Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#544: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:45:14 PM

That's just one of the many things I love about Tangled.

see my completed Tangled (Varian) fanfic collection! https://archiveofourown.org/works/24467056/chapters/59049532
Bornstellar Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#545: Apr 10th 2020 at 2:54:53 PM

Yeah, its pretty cool how solid of a relationship Eugene and Rapunzel are. I feel like it's pretty rare to see couples like that in fiction, specifically when they are the main characters. Of course, it helps that Eugene literally gave his life to save Rapunzel, so it would be really weird if he wasn't super devoted to Rapunzel.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#546: Apr 10th 2020 at 3:24:57 PM

Its actually what helped sell the series to me. The fact that the lead couple was shown as mutually supportive and, like, functional, was part of what drew me in. They were both clearly written as in love and though they may have disputes they actually seemed to click and work together.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Apr 10th 2020 at 6:25:26 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#547: Apr 10th 2020 at 3:40:54 PM

It's especially noteworthy since Eugene actually has had relationships prior to meeting Rapunzel, so it's not like he's never been into other people besides Rapunzel.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bornstellar Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#548: May 1st 2020 at 9:43:59 PM

Anyone else get Princess Mononoke vibes from Angry? Like, I'm tempted to say that her character (at least in its initial design) was a shout-out to San, since they both have red up-side down triangle marks on their cheeks and short dark hair.

jessicadicicco610 Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#549: Jul 27th 2020 at 7:23:31 AM

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/daytime-emmys-winners-2020-sesame-street-1234716898/

The show won 3 Daytime Emmys for outstanding original song (Waiting In The Wings), writing for an animated program, and for its title sequence (sharing this one with The Casagrandes).

GlitterCat Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#550: Jul 27th 2020 at 6:44:44 PM

Awesome. I'm so glad this excellent show got some recognition.

see my completed Tangled (Varian) fanfic collection! https://archiveofourown.org/works/24467056/chapters/59049532

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