A Wave of Female Creator Driven Cartoons

I actually believe you. Nobody here is a Tumblr SJW. Please speak in a less accusatory tone of you are indeed sincere.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I know it's a subjective thing, but overall seems that the perception among animation fans is that the 2010's are better than the 2000's: that of course doesn't mean everything made in this decade would be always be better than what was done in the last one, but at least that's seems to be the consensus.

And part of this quality improvement could be linked to a new wave of female creators: not because female are always going to be better than male ones, BUT, the idea is that the industry is (or it's supposed to be) a meritocracy: the best of the best survives, and now we're seeing the best of the best among a whole gender of creators that was always there, but executives didn't really bother to listen.

The best analogy I can think of is what "Black" music meant to American culture: that doesn't mean that all Black creators, musicians, singers and composers are inherently superior to White ones, BUT, just take them the best of them away from American History and you'd lose Gospel, Blues, Jazz, Rock N'Roll, Motown, R&B, Soul, Disco and Hip-Hop: practically every stylistic movement that made American music really different from European music.

edited 8th Jun '15 8:27:25 PM by Anthony_H

I don't see the analogy.

So far this decade we've had maybe two cartoons with female creators. I can remember about six from the 2000s and there may be others I don't remember. Unless the situation improves by the end of the decade, I don't see it.

edited 8th Jun '15 8:36:27 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

What I meant is that we're seeing, using an unfortunate term but I think it may fit with some proportion, some kind of gender "desegregation": now female creators are starting to join the club instead of being ignored, the same way when Black music was starting to become more popular with the mainstream American scene, it didn't destroy the industry, in fact, just the opposite: it enrich it with all its variety and diversity.

It's definitely no secret and hardly up for debate that big industries are historically more prone to reject the ideas of women and see everything through dated demographic goggles - nobody should have to bring up what happened to Young Justice again.

Or the simple fact that despite how long it's been making original series, Cartoon Network never greenlit a pitch by a woman until a couple years ago, when surely Steven Universe was not the first, and maybe not necessarily even the best one they had ever been presented with.

Cartoon Network has greenlit some real stinkers from time to time. I'm sure at some point a female cartoonist must have pitched an idea at least more original than My Gym Partner is a Monkey.

edited 8th Jun '15 10:06:02 PM by scythemantis

bogleech.com for my writing, comics and cartoons.

You really think demographics didn't matter when Steven Universe was pitched? You really think they didn't see how much the Adventure Time fangirls would love it?

Again, while not accusatory, your tone is far for friendly and stuff. And this is from someone who doesnt like tumblr or SJ Ws. Please tone down the attitude.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I fail to see what counter-point you're trying to make, dude.

I reiterate: it's pretty well established that networks think in terms of strict demographics, that "girls" like some things and "boys" like some other things and that boys are where most of the money is.

But Adventure Time has helped dash that, seeing as it became such a huge money-maker across multiple genders and age groups, or at least, the network started to care and acknowledge it.

Which, yes, gave Steven Universe a boost, while being a much more "girly" show, being initially pitched as mostly a homage to magical girl anime. That might have never been picked up years ago when networks kept saying that cartoons were only profitable with males.

You're not saying anything that doesn't support what I've been talking about.

And I, for one, think so-called "SJW" rhetoric has had only a positive effect on media. Almost every notorious example of a bad one is just a transparently fake troll post. People who think they hate "SJW's" generally have no idea what points are actually being made about media or why and have just heard a couple internet ghost stories about it.

It is absolutely fantastic, LONG overdue and refreshing as hell how mad people are FINALLY getting about the obvious biases and bad cliche's our entertainment has perpetuated for so long. How can you even be posting on T Vtropes and not be aware of the predictable bullshit ways female characters are so overwhelmingly portrayed in damn near everything?

edited 8th Jun '15 10:27:46 PM by scythemantis

bogleech.com for my writing, comics and cartoons.

I asked for an example of SJW criticisms hurting entertainment media, not people getting righteously creeped out by bronies.

Damn it, wasn't I the one who said not to feed you? Look what you made me do.

Seriously get a new schtick.

edited 8th Jun '15 11:39:23 PM by scythemantis

bogleech.com for my writing, comics and cartoons.

Sorry, this is a late response.

What creators develop is influenced by their context, which includes their gender. Therefore, more female creators means more cartoons with different contextual influences informing them. If you like variety in your entertainment (not that everybody does), this is a good thing.

edited 9th Jun '15 1:02:41 AM by editerguy

So why is it that the most popular cartoon created by a female so far nominally stars a boy?

I find these whole arguments about female creators giving us a new viewpoint to be incomprehensible. We don't need female creators writing shows from their viewpoint. We need female creators writing shows that are entertaining, and funny, and well-written. Men can write female characters; women can write male characters.

If we can stop treating female creators like they're a different animal from male ones, then change is gonna happen.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

God Bless THIS comment RIGHT HERE. Have a nice day - you've won.

New Web Browser, same old Shokew.

But female creators have made some really entertaining cartoons. Some of the best this decade so far.

My Tumblr "If theirs one thing I'm good at, it's blowing" Jesse Cox 2013

So I hear; but people are suggesting this means change. It'll probably only mean change when the general public doesn't treat them like a different beast from male creators, as I said.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

If this is meant to be a response to my comment, it misunderstands my claim.

My claim is that creators who have different experiences will likely create different fiction. One factor (among many) which leads people to develop different life experiences is gender.

This is not the same as saying that there are different 'animals' when it comes to male or female cartoonists, whatever that means.

Why not?

Now when you say righteously, do you mean righteously as in justly, or righteously as in self-righteously?

I too feel like I've taken some sort of bait. Allow me to return to my original question: define sensitive.

That's all well and good, but the reality is that the general public, and industries in general do treat men and women differently. They have so in the past, do so now, and likely will continue to into the near future.

Also, even though women have been doing a lot of work in animation for years it pretty obvious the general public doesn't know that. Hell, I doubt anyone who isn't a hardcore fan of animation or actually works in the industry knows that.

That's why people feel the need to promote that women are involved even at the highest levels.

People seem to think that creator-driven cartoons are akin to the New Hollywood stuff of the 70s - you know, how directors made personal films about subjects they wanted to talk about?

They're not. For the most part, they're created by men and women who want to either do comedy or do action. What makes the shows what they are is influenced by the creators' respective tastes, but so long as creator-driven animation on TV is just comedy and action, I don't see life experiences informing the stories of the show.

The general public barely knows the names of anyone who even works in animation. Pretty much everyone in the world knows Sponge Bob, how many people could tell you who created it?

edited 9th Jun '15 6:58:17 AM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Exactly.

That's why you see people promoting these things even though their actual significance to the medium isn't necessarily that great. To dismiss it I think is unnecessarily reductive.

I don't see how promoting females working in animation will help anything when people who work in animation are only famous among cartoon fans.

In the grand scheme of things, aside from helping diversity, which is necessary, it doesn't really matter.

edited 9th Jun '15 7:39:08 AM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

@Scott Pilgrim 2013 - So that means we just ignore any and all good cartoons made as of late by males, then, and going forward. Got it. Sorry, but that's disrespectful - there are a lot of cartoons on made by males currently running that I still like that seem to be constantly disrespected, and I can't stand it all that much, now - and it's thanks to shit like this, which is what it is - BS.

It's like saying women can't do wrong - and that's a goddamn lie. Just my two cents.

Once again - someone talking snese on all of this. For female creator driven joints to be more universally accepted, the medium itself must be as well, for example. That ain't happening fast enough - in fact, it's gotten worse as of late; much worse.

edited 9th Jun '15 8:05:13 AM by Shokew

New Web Browser, same old Shokew.

But, that's not at all what they said.

Seriously, where did you get that from?

The vibe of this whole thread - the feeling that every bad cartoon made as of late was by males and NOT females. I don't buy that and I don't like that vibe I'm getting here, so I spoke out.

New Web Browser, same old Shokew.

No one has really said that guys have only bad cartoons. Tons of guys have also made some great cartoons. And I'm sure their are shows that girls that aren't good. I was telling Aldo that shows that girls have made have been really good recently. At least the ones I've seen (those being FIM, Steven Universe, and Star vs.).

My Tumblr "If theirs one thing I'm good at, it's blowing" Jesse Cox 2013