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Live-Action Mulan remake.

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1026: Sep 17th 2020 at 10:51:09 PM

[up] AAH! Now that makes more sense, thanks.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#1027: Sep 18th 2020 at 2:20:16 AM

I find it understandable, because the Mongols invaded and controlled the people of China with their installed Yuan Dynasty, thus making any act of "China" during their rule be inherently a Mongol one as well.

It also highlights the utter hypocrisy of how both the Yuan and Qing are "foreign invaders", yet the CCP is perfectly happy to claim the areas conquered by those dynasties as "ancient Chinese lands".

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 18th 2020 at 11:26:04 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#1028: Sep 18th 2020 at 9:55:26 AM

Yeah. I don't think it’s bad in itself to call Kublai and co Mongols, because they were. But in light of issues raised by Mulan, its kind of troubling how they are selectively treated as Chinese or barbarian invaders.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#1029: Sep 20th 2020 at 2:49:48 AM

So the remake, in addition to removing Mushu, Li Shang, and Shan Yu, replacing the latter with a villain even more one-note, also removes the titular characters arc via making her a chosen hero blessed with what is basically The Force in the form of Chi, doesn't really give enough focus on her family and why she wants to bring honor to them and herself, and in the end, basically has her agreeing to uphold the status quo and all that. Not to mention that the film was shot in a controversial location and also bungles a whole lot of essential Chinese myths and the like.

.......................................Who. Wrote. This?

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1030: Sep 20th 2020 at 2:55:23 AM

[up]A committee of shareholders.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1031: Sep 20th 2020 at 3:20:46 AM

[up] With notes from the CCP.

I hear that the OG ballad of Mulan called the Emperor, a Khan?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 20th 2020 at 6:21:54 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1032: Sep 20th 2020 at 3:26:29 AM

[up]It really depend of which era it came from. Remember the poem go through a ton of version and changed base on which era/ dynasty it set in. Emperor just the most common use title for the ruler for the majority of Chinese.

Edited by BattleRaizer on Sep 20th 2020 at 5:27:49 PM

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1033: Sep 20th 2020 at 3:30:16 AM

I see.

Would most modern Chinese people trace lineage from Mongolians?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#1034: Sep 20th 2020 at 3:32:08 AM

Mulan's liege in the original poem was described as both the kehian (Chinese transliteration of "kha(ga)n" and as the tianzi (Chinese title for emperors, seemingly not Han-exclusive). English also gives the title of "emperor" to rulers of the empire of Northern Wei. The fact that both terms were in the same poem merely suggests that Mulan's ruler was simply an emperor of nomadic ethnicity.

[up] Most? Very unlikely. Aside from the provinces with natively high Mongolian subpopulations, there doesn't seem to have been broad efforts at demographic admixture from the Mongolian conquerers with the native Hans, who were seen as a racial underclass.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 20th 2020 at 6:36:46 AM

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#1035: Sep 20th 2020 at 4:07:36 AM

Btw, apparently, two of the writers were the same ones who did the screenplay for Dawn of the Planet of the Apes................Man, what happened to them to go from that to this?

Also, not only is the villain such a blatant misogynist (really gotta hammer home that girl power.....while removing the original's genuine example of it), but they removed or simplified important scenes like the one where Mulan leaves her family to join the army along with removing her development into a true warrior, instead, replacing it with Chi. Heck, even the phoenix in the movie bears little resemblance to actual Chinese mythological depictions of it. And the witch in the film is persecuted for having magic, when those kinds of characters in Chinese mythology are revered as nobles.

..........................Somebody actually fricken wrote this. And got paid for it.

Edited by LDragon2 on Sep 20th 2020 at 4:08:25 AM

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1036: Sep 20th 2020 at 4:40:17 AM

[up]Sound like a paycheck movie to me. Something one did for the money rather than passion.

[up][up][up]Mongolia don't exactly mix in much with the Hans majority during their stay. After the invasion most Mongolia in China was noble and didn't interact much with the population.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1037: Sep 20th 2020 at 4:40:32 AM

[up] I honestly do wonder how much creative control the directors had.

But this movie does have the usual Disney fingerprints when it comes to live action.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#1038: Sep 20th 2020 at 4:56:34 AM

Btw, apparently, two of the writers were the same ones who did the screenplay for Dawn of the Planet of the Apes................Man, what happened to them to go from that to this?

White writers have an easier time writing nonhumans than they do writing fellow humans who are simply not white.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1040: Sep 20th 2020 at 5:10:11 AM

[up][up] That's so bitingly true.

It's why certain writers and franchises who must not be named portray certain ethnicities as aliens.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1041: Sep 20th 2020 at 6:09:43 AM

Who researched this. Like all of this stuff makes it come off as a weird mix of Western and eastern beliefs which would be okay I guess if they were going for Making a fantasy style setting like that but they specially stated it was meant to be more authentic to China . How did things go so wrong.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1042: Sep 20th 2020 at 6:11:47 AM

[up] I hear that Disney had a costume designer who was western, take a trip to a European museum about Chinese culture with plundered artifacts to get a feel for Mulan's aesthetic.

That would explain so much.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1043: Sep 20th 2020 at 6:36:07 AM

[up][up] Tbh the missed bits are so baseline that I get the feeling that at least some of them had to be initially done better but then execs in charge went "Hey. Make this more understandable for western audience." Such as throwing out "cultivation" and just saying "chi" for the wuxia bits.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1044: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:05:45 AM

[up] So they thought western audiences were stupid but they alienated the Chinese demographic they wanted to pander to? And most western people also realized that the movie was inaccurate.

HA!

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1045: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:12:15 AM

The weird thing is most people I know do know chi isn't some magic power up so found that change baffling.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1046: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:29:19 AM

[up][up] Note that I am guessing/assuming something like that went down, and giving the writers some modicum of credibility.

Edited by Adannor on Sep 20th 2020 at 5:30:03 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1047: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:32:57 AM

[up] Yeah, it is curious how much the script was altered.

Especially if the CCP was involved.

Like how Mulan's loyalty to the government and knowing her place lines. Blargh.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1048: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:39:38 AM

Making the Emperor fight and help defeat the main bad guy smell like propaganda to me rather than any attempt to be historically accurate.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1049: Sep 20th 2020 at 7:41:26 AM

[up] As I understand it, Emperors in China do NOT do this sort of thing.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1050: Sep 20th 2020 at 9:19:41 AM

You could say the stupidity of everything involved in this movies was over 9000.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 20th 2020 at 9:20:31 AM


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