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All-Purpose Policy and Meta discussion: Administrivia.Trope Repair Shop

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Before making or posting in a thread, read the Trope Repairing Guidelines to see whether a thread you're considering making actually should be made, as well as what is and isn't allowed in an open thread.

This thread is a metathread for Trope Repair Shop discussion. Things like TRS policy, what is needed in a TRS opening post, questions about whether a certain topic is TRS-worthy and questions about why a thread wasn't opened go here.

Some guidelines for when/whether to use TRS:

  • If the trope is fine, but has some bad examples, feel free to clean them up or to start a cleanup project at Projects: Short-Term. Trope Repair Shop is for when cleaning isn't sufficient.
  • If you think there's something wrong with the trope that systematically attracts improper examples, start a discussion at Trope Talk. Use a Wick Check to see whether there's an issue present (and if there is, what the issue is). The following methods are two possible ways to do a wick check (though not necessarily the only ways):
    • You can go ahead with the Wick Check without a discussion if you know what you're looking for. While it's not mandatory, feel free to ask someone for help confirming that you got the issue and the numbers correct.
    • Consult the Wick Check Project thread to collect evidence if you need help.
  • Depending on a trope (or non-trope) in question, a wick check may be determined to not be required, such as for tropes that are not thriving (per the standards for trope health listed on the Wick page). However, there is no problem if you want to do one anyway.

For a more detailed introduction to this forum, click here.

For related projects, see Wick Cleaning Projects and the Wick Check Project.

For a list of wiki pages related to thread outcomes, see the following:

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2025 at 11:35:13 AM

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#5626: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:15:30 PM

everytime I stumble across Nice Guy, I know it needs TRS, but with almost 30000 wicks.....it's so daunting. And yet I know the longer we wait, the worse it'll get. Ugh

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5627: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:19:33 PM

[up] Start it and folks can pitch in! 172 wicks would need to be checked, not including the gendered redirects. Idk how those get addressed.

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5628: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:22:06 PM

Sometimes I throw a few redirect wicks into the wick check and just note in the comment that it came from a redirect. Like, typically it doesn't make a difference but it at least adds some potential variety.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5629: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:28:26 PM

[up] I use an "Unclassifiable" folder for those types of wicks.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5630: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:32:37 PM

Why would they be unclassifiable? Lol

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5631: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:34:56 PM

[up] Well, the term is a catch-all I use for stuff like indexes, "see also" mentions in descriptions, etc. By "unclassifiable", I mean "cannot be classified into a category of usage".

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 13th 2022 at 12:35:13 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5632: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:37:36 PM

Sure, my point is that a redirect wick is just... another wick. Same patterns, just under a slightly new name. So I just don't understand why a redirect wick would be "unclassifiable" any more than a normal wick.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 13th 2022 at 12:38:08 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5633: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:41:30 PM

[up] I still don't quite understand the specifics of what you're saying but that's because I'm exhausted and I have to get to sleep soon anyway. I'll just leave it there I guess.

FWIW I just skip over redirects when I do wick checks. I think I misunderstood your original comment.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 13th 2022 at 12:42:51 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5634: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:43:05 PM

All I'm saying is that if there's enough redirect wicks to make a dent then I check a few wicks from that redirect and just say where I got them from. That's really it, lol. But hey I feel you mate get some sleep ~

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5635: Sep 13th 2022 at 9:44:26 PM

[up] Oooohhhh. I did misunderstand you. I thought you meant when, say you have Trope A with Trope B as a redirect and Trope B is listed as a wick itself in the wick list. I didn't realize you meant checking the wicks of a redirect. That's absolutely fine, actually probably recommended to get a bigger picture of a trope's problems.

I really do need sleep.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 13th 2022 at 12:46:25 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#5636: Sep 13th 2022 at 10:06:44 PM

@Yindee it's not the wick check that's daunting. I could check 170 wicks on my own. It's that once we start on the path of fixing this trope, we're going to have to finish. 30,000 wicks to sift through regardless of the end goal (dewick, move to new tropes) is going to take a lot of effort and hands. Seeing how other large projects go, that's a multi-year endeavor and idk if I want to open that can of worms at this time

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 13th 2022 at 1:08:35 PM

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5637: Sep 13th 2022 at 10:11:36 PM

Ah yeah. Good point. Has a project of that magnitude ever been accomplished before?

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#5638: Sep 13th 2022 at 10:19:36 PM

I mean, look at Up To Eleven. It had a similar wick count. The cleanup was basically abandoned because it would be difficult, but then it did get cleaned. Someone just has to be willing to do it.

Edited by Walkinshadows on Sep 13th 2022 at 1:20:22 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5639: Sep 13th 2022 at 10:55:31 PM

I wouldn't say Up To Eleven was "abandoned", rather, everyone agreed to just make it a casual "remove them if you want to" thing. However, that's also because it was a pothole magnet / stock phrase and hardly ever used as a normal trope.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5640: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:07:43 AM

Paging ~Vampire Buddha regarding the next entry on the TRS Queue, since I closed the thread for The Lost Woods.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5641: Sep 14th 2022 at 9:25:45 AM

@redirects: Considering that wick counts include wicks from redirect, if we're to check 172 wicks from Nice Guy, shouldn't that include ones from the redirects as well? When I did the wick check from The Mean Brit, half came from the main title, the other half came from the redirect, Mean Brit.

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5642: Sep 14th 2022 at 9:36:57 AM

[up] Okay, I did some math. If you want it to be proportional to the number of wicks, you'd have to check the following:

In total, you would need 198 wicks (the rounded-up square root of 39069 total wicks).

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5643: Sep 14th 2022 at 11:09:03 AM

Eh, the way I do it is that I take the original number (in this case, 170) and just substitute some wicks with the redirects. I don't worry about adding up the exact right number; nobody cares that much. [lol]

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5644: Sep 14th 2022 at 1:58:15 PM

Did another wick cleaning roundup.

Fewest wicks remaining: Angry Black Man (667), Sequel Difficulty Spike (622), Sequel Difficulty Drop (457), Corrupt Hick (380), McLeaned (149)

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5645: Sep 14th 2022 at 9:45:14 PM

Also you accidentally added 10,000 wicks to the count [lol]

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5646: Sep 14th 2022 at 9:53:49 PM

[up] Indeed I did! 29527 (Nice Guy) + 9413 (Nice Girl) + 138 (Nice Gal) = 39078

sqrt 39078 = 198

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5647: Sep 14th 2022 at 10:12:12 PM

Pretty sure the redirects are counted in the main wicks, so 29528 wicks already include the 9413 from Nice Girl and 138 from Nice Gal.

Edited by Adept on Sep 15th 2022 at 12:12:34 AM

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#5648: Sep 14th 2022 at 10:19:27 PM

If that's the case, then, whoops. I can recrunch my numbers in the morning (for my own entertainment/satisfaction).

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5649: Sep 14th 2022 at 10:42:35 PM

There's no need to make it an exact science, I just grab like 10 or 20 of them lol

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#5650: Sep 15th 2022 at 6:44:36 AM

With redirects included in the main counts, they can be naturally included by simply rolling a number that's high enough; if a page has X links with Y from redirects, if you roll a number between X-Y and X the resulting link should come from one of the redirects. The only reason why you'd need to do anything else special is if the redirect is an Internal Subtrope or otherwise there to catch a particular use pattern.

Edited by MorganWick on Sep 15th 2022 at 6:44:51 AM


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