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All-Purpose Policy and Meta discussion: Administrivia.Trope Repair Shop

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Before making or posting in a thread, read the Trope Repairing Guidelines to see whether a thread you're considering making actually should be made, as well as what is and isn't allowed in an open thread.

This thread is a metathread for Trope Repair Shop discussion. Things like TRS policy, what is needed in a TRS opening post, questions about whether a certain topic is TRS-worthy and questions about why a thread wasn't opened go here.

Some guidelines for when/whether to use TRS:

  • If the trope is fine, but has some bad examples, feel free to clean them up or to start a cleanup project at Projects: Short-Term. Trope Repair Shop is for when cleaning isn't sufficient.
  • If you think there's something wrong with the trope that systematically attracts improper examples, start a discussion at Trope Talk. Use a Wick Check to see whether there's an issue present (and if there is, what the issue is). The following methods are two possible ways to do a wick check (though not necessarily the only ways):
    • You can go ahead with the Wick Check without a discussion if you know what you're looking for. While it's not mandatory, feel free to ask someone for help confirming that you got the issue and the numbers correct.
    • Consult the Wick Check Project thread to collect evidence if you need help.
  • Depending on a trope (or non-trope) in question, a wick check may be determined to not be required, such as for tropes that are not thriving (per the standards for trope health listed on the Wick page). However, there is no problem if you want to do one anyway.

For a more detailed introduction to this forum, click here.

For related projects, see Wick Cleaning Projects and the Wick Check Project.

For a list of wiki pages related to thread outcomes, see the following:

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2025 at 11:35:13 AM

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#5576: Sep 7th 2022 at 5:57:51 PM

you could mitigate that by putting it in quotes... i doubt a Trope Of Legend will ever get its name changed, but if it did, Punctuated With "Bitch" or something along those lines could work.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5577: Sep 7th 2022 at 6:00:43 PM

Neglected to mention this when Weekend Inventor's thread was brought up because it was locked for three and a half hours before I opened it, but since Macron (who's usually the one who opens and closes threads) is taking a break for understandable reasons, future threads may take a bit longer to be opened and closed if I end up being the only workshop mod available at the time, since I don't read the holler thread and prefer to check the TRS thread list manually. Fortunately, this won't always be the case, because Synchronicity recently opened a thread and crazysamaritan made at least one non-mod hat TRS post recently, so it's a matter of who's online when the thread is made.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 7th 2022 at 8:02:01 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Jetbent Captain Catman from California where the wild things are Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: I'm her lunatic and she's my sociopath
Captain Catman
#5578: Sep 7th 2022 at 6:06:56 PM

It kind of seems like a catch 22. I can’t bring up a problematic trope elsewhere because that”s what TRS is for but I also can’t find where to talk about it to get consensus since that’s what TRS is for and there’s only 50 threads allowed in TRS and a long line in TRS Queue. Where should I be posting things to get conversation on them exactly?

On the topic of deleting my TRS Queue post about retiring "Bitch" from trope names/descriptions:

  • I think rejecting the rename / retirement / moratorium on new TLP tropes outright by deleting and not considering any of it is premature and dismissive.

  • The fact that there are other problematic tropes that exist doesn’t negate the issue I brought up.

  • It’s only ever going to get harder the longer it’s ignored as an issue so when is the right time to bring it up exactly?

Edited by Jetbent on Sep 7th 2022 at 6:09:09 AM

60% of the time I work every time
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#5579: Sep 7th 2022 at 6:14:11 PM

Trope Talk, my dude. bring it up there and ill happily have this conversation. TRS just isn't the place.

Tonwen HoMM Fan from Axeoth Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
HoMM Fan
#5580: Sep 7th 2022 at 6:15:30 PM

The real heart of the issue was that it was a batch thread with double digit tropes in it.

There are VERY SCANT exceptions where a batch thread is okay at that scale (Camera Tricks, for example), but that's usually due to "Not Thriving" issues.

The thread would require renaming a bunch of tropes that have wicks in the tens of thousands, aggregate, and coming up with new names for every single one of them that still retain the same cleanliness and identifiability.

It would probably be a better idea to go to Trope Talk first to raise your points there and see if you can get some more support behind you before you do a thread of that scale.

Edit: [nja]'d on the trope talk point but the rest of it still applies.

Edited by Tonwen on Sep 7th 2022 at 9:15:55 AM

"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5581: Sep 7th 2022 at 6:19:17 PM

Right, it's not a Catch-22 Dilemma, it's just knowing where the correct venue is and how much a single thread can manage.

Additionally, you're gonna wanna give Everything You Wanted To Know About Changing Titles a read. It's not a simple thing, it's a whole ass process, so right now we're only prioritizing tropes that are suffering as a result of their title.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 7th 2022 at 9:19:26 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Jetbent Captain Catman from California where the wild things are Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: I'm her lunatic and she's my sociopath
Captain Catman
#5582: Sep 7th 2022 at 7:17:20 PM

I did read it actually, it doesn’t list unmitigated slurs in the title as an issue but I think that’s actually a problem. I posted my thesis in Trope Talk though so I’ll leave it there

Edited by Jetbent on Sep 7th 2022 at 7:17:56 AM

60% of the time I work every time
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5583: Sep 7th 2022 at 7:31:53 PM

I saw, there's a lot to go over so I'll respond later. I'll say that your passion for fixing these things is valid, sometimes these changes just need to come slowly and going to Trope Talk is the best way to figure it out.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5584: Sep 8th 2022 at 4:07:28 AM

I closed Positive Discrimination's thread, and there was a bit of a delay due to reasons I already mentioned. However, I'd like to point out that on-page examples need to be cleaned as well, so please do that next time. (I went ahead and did it in this case before closing the thread, though.)

Anyway, I made isoycrazy's McLeaned thread to fill the vacated slot.

I got a rock for Halloween.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5587: Sep 8th 2022 at 8:35:06 AM

[up]Not sure if Ultimate Evil (755) has among the fewest, but it shouldn't be hard to clear out. That and Angry Black Man will probably be easy to clean up since the former's new name begins with the same letter, meaning wicks won't need to be moved much further down the list (if at all), and the latter's new name just added a fourth word, so its wicks probably won't need to be moved at all.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 8th 2022 at 10:36:49 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Jetbent Captain Catman from California where the wild things are Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: I'm her lunatic and she's my sociopath
Captain Catman
#5588: Sep 8th 2022 at 11:29:06 AM

By the way, how does one go about actually finding and doing TRS work? Is it just listed within the actual posts on TRS or is it just the proposer who does the work?

60% of the time I work every time
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5589: Sep 8th 2022 at 11:31:29 AM

Anyone does the work, the more people the better. What the work is is stated at the end of the discussions or pinned.

Some also left at Wick Cleaning Projects.

Edited by Amonimus on Sep 8th 2022 at 9:32:25 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Hello83433 (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5591: Sep 9th 2022 at 5:37:26 AM

~Yindee Name-face Name is closing, and you're next on the queue.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#5592: Sep 9th 2022 at 5:38:21 AM

Paging ~Yindee regarding the next Queue entry. I don't know how long it'll take to be opened because I'll be out of town for most of the day and I don't use TV Tropes on my phone.

Edit: Ninja'd regarding the page, but the rest is still relevant.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 9th 2022 at 7:38:37 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#5593: Sep 9th 2022 at 11:23:39 PM

Music at Sporting Events is still listed in the folders of Sandbox.TRS Queue, even though it's not on the queue list. Did ~amathieu13 make a mistake there when adding to the list?

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#5594: Sep 9th 2022 at 11:33:27 PM

see this.

but in essence wick check revealed bigger issue that requires a second wick check that i haven't gotten around to doing yet, so it's there but not in the queue

harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#5595: Sep 10th 2022 at 4:04:02 AM

[up] Thanks for the clarification!

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#5596: Sep 10th 2022 at 5:56:46 AM

Regarding increasing my participation in TRS, as I hinted at in my original post and as pointed out to Jetbent above, part of the thing is that a good chunk of the discussion that used to happen on TRS and where I might be useful in clarifying some things, namely when establishing where a problem exists at all and what the definition of a trope and its relationship with similar tropes is supposed to be, now seems to take place on Trope Talk before a TRS thread is even created, but that gets into a whole other discussion regarding how TRS has changed since I was more active here. (I am more active here now, but it sounds like I might want to venture into nearly every pre-crowner thread as opposed to just the ones that catch my eye; not like there's that many of them either way. On the other hand, the fact it took me a few days to write this might be a bad sign for my ability to participate more fully.)

As it happens, the discussion spinning from the notion of locking the queue leads me to the main part of that discussion I was going to talk about, something I could have taken directly to the Wishlist but I wasn't sure whether or not it would be controversial. As it happens it sounds like it's probably not controversial on a high level here, but as GastonRabbit says it might need to be taken to Wiki Talk to ensure it's not controversial among the community as a whole, and the specific suggestion I have might be controversial regardless. (And of course, whatever happens would only be implemented whenever the devs have time for it, which could be never.)

Namely, I'm wondering if, as Amonimus said earlier, "the only reason the queue isn't explicitly mandatory because there's no technical mechanism that would enforce it", that raises the question of whether or not we should ask for one.

I had a whole-ass draft of what I was going to take to the Wishlist but now I'm wondering if I should hold off on posting that either there or here and instead put it in a Wiki Talk thread (even though the details might be more appropriate here). In brief, though, although there are several ways to implement it what would probably be simplest for the devs would be to remove the cap on the total number of threads and instead apply it to the number of open threads. (The reason I imagine this might be controversial is the perception associated with "removing the cap" even if it wouldn't actually be removed in practice.) Then anyone could start a thread at any time and the mods could approve it at any time, but it couldn't be opened until a space opened up, at which point a bot would open whatever thread(s) were next in the queue. Does that sound like an idea worth floating in a larger venue?

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5597: Sep 10th 2022 at 6:04:16 AM

[up] A concern I have with the idea of allowing locked, non-open threads to appear is that, in large numbers, they would drown out the open threads, requiring those threads to have to be bumped constantly to avoid being drowned out by the closed threads. I fear it would also just make TRS more confusing in general. That's just my two cents though.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#5598: Sep 10th 2022 at 6:26:35 AM

a good chunk of the discussion that used to happen on TRS and where I might be useful in clarifying some things, namely when establishing where a problem exists at all and what the definition of a trope and its relationship with similar tropes is supposed to be, now seems to take place on Trope Talk before a TRS thread is even created

This is weird to me. I mean, sure, several tropes that eventually get brought here have Trope Talk threads first, but that's 1) not mandatory and 2) usually done by people who want a second opinion on their diagnosis of an issue. I can say that out of the 12 tropes I've TRS'd since I got active last year, I brought only one to Trope Talk first. Often Trope Talk threads are created when the issue goes past a single trope and impacts a whole class of tropes since TRS threads are dedicated to a single trope.

But outside of that, unpacking and understanding the nuances of an issue happens in threads all of the time. A great example is what happened with Everythings Better With Cows. It had a thread for misuse, but convo within the thread led to a reevaluation on the tropeworthiness of the trope and tropes like it. Because that last part impacts a bunch of tropes, a separate Trope Talk thread was created, but the convo about what even was the issue with the trope took place in the thread itself.

Thread openers do include a diagnosis of the issue and a plan of action to follow, but it is common for both the plan and the diagnosis to change through discussion in the thread.

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 10th 2022 at 9:27:36 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5599: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:32:30 AM

TBF through, part of what makes Trope Talk an appealing discussion venue is that we're not forced to find a solution in the midst of our discussion. Like, we don't need to both analyze the trope and come up with a way to fix it — we can just analyze the trope and let TRS do the problem solving part. Alternatively, Trope Talk can help us find solutions but without needing to rush it. At least twice, two TRS threads were locked with inconclusive results and given a TRS thread to keep hashing things out so we could get past the discussion part but at our own pace.

Basically, Trope Talk is great because the pressure is off. We don't need to all get consensus or vote on ideas or find a solution before the thread is clocked; we can just have the discussion at a calmer pace and go to TRS once everyone feels ready to tackle the actual problem.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#5600: Sep 10th 2022 at 7:44:02 PM

[up] Trope Talk is now essentially hosting what TRS had before the rules became stricter, and (imo) this is a good thing: The problem TRS used to have is that you had these legitimate, well-thought-out efforts alongside "hey this trope could have a problem, but I haven't checked hard enough yet" threads that fizzled out with nothing done. Now there's a place for impromptu discussion of trope problems without derailing or crowding out the bigger ones.


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