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All-Purpose Policy and Meta discussion: Administrivia.Trope Repair Shop

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Before making or posting in a thread, read the Trope Repairing Guidelines to see whether a thread you're considering making actually should be made, as well as what is and isn't allowed in an open thread.

This thread is a metathread for Trope Repair Shop discussion. Things like TRS policy, what is needed in a TRS opening post, questions about whether a certain topic is TRS-worthy and questions about why a thread wasn't opened go here.

Some guidelines for when/whether to use TRS:

  • If the trope is fine, but has some bad examples, feel free to clean them up or to start a cleanup project at Projects: Short-Term. Trope Repair Shop is for when cleaning isn't sufficient.
  • If you think there's something wrong with the trope that systematically attracts improper examples, start a discussion at Trope Talk. Use a Wick Check to see whether there's an issue present (and if there is, what the issue is). The following methods are two possible ways to do a wick check (though not necessarily the only ways):
    • You can go ahead with the Wick Check without a discussion if you know what you're looking for. While it's not mandatory, feel free to ask someone for help confirming that you got the issue and the numbers correct.
    • Consult the Wick Check Project thread to collect evidence if you need help.
  • Depending on a trope (or non-trope) in question, a wick check may be determined to not be required, such as for tropes that are not thriving (per the standards for trope health listed on the Wick page). However, there is no problem if you want to do one anyway.

For a more detailed introduction to this forum, click here.

For related projects, see Wick Cleaning Projects and the Wick Check Project.

For a list of wiki pages related to thread outcomes, see the following:

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2025 at 11:35:13 AM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3451: Jan 10th 2022 at 10:35:57 AM

Nooo don't burn yourself out! smile That post was made with the intention of getting other people to help out.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3452: Jan 10th 2022 at 10:37:49 AM

Stuffed into the Fridge is almost sub-1000 [lol]. It's a slower process, but also not a very hard one and I can tackle at least 60-something wicks a night, usually more than that.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
sohibil Since: Dec, 2020 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#3453: Jan 10th 2022 at 12:07:21 PM

The laconic page of The Man Behind the Man is practically a description of Greater-Scope Villain. Is The Man Behind the Man always necessarily villainous? What's the real difference between these tropes?

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3454: Jan 10th 2022 at 12:20:33 PM

They can overlap, but aren't the same thing. It's on the pages:

Compare and contrast Greater-Scope Villain, where a villain more powerful than the Big Bad exists, but is either not personally involved in the plot or is not a "person" to begin with

In a general sense this should also not be considered the same as The Man Behind the Man, because if they are behind the plot they would be a Big Bad. However, the Man Behind The Man and Greater Scope Villain can overlap if the Man Behind the Man remains distant enough from the story.

As a rule of thumb, please don't ever take the laconic page as the actual definition; they're so frequently misleading that there's a cleanup for them.

For future reference, this thread is for "what's the difference between these tropes" questions.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#3455: Jan 10th 2022 at 9:38:28 PM

The Man Behind the Man is the real Big Bad who is directly masterminding the conflict but hides behind a frontman. The Greater-Scope Villain is indirectly responsible for the conflict and is not the Big Bad. A character cannot be both at the same time.

Edited by MasterN on Jan 10th 2022 at 9:39:36 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3456: Jan 11th 2022 at 3:36:55 AM

As Synchronicity said, further discussion regarding the difference between The Man Behind the Man and Greater-Scope Villain would be better suited to the duplicate tropes cleanup thread on the Trope Talk forum, which she linked to.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 11th 2022 at 5:37:25 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#3457: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:34:08 PM

It was brought up in the overly-long pages thread but nothing was done, so just wondering: do we need to split or reorganize Tropes Needing TRS? It isn't overly long yet but it is a bit unwieldy to edit, and there are 14 folders.

Edited by Walkinshadows on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:35:37 PM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3458: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:38:01 PM

tfw Tropes Needing TRS needs TRS itself. I'm not sure what could be done with those besides doing a big review and deciding what is a non-issue and what is clear without a wick check. Not much probably.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#3459: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:40:41 PM

Splitting folders into separate pages was suggested, if that's a possibility.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3460: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:42:00 PM

Yeah, instead of splitting it I feel like we need a short-term project to dive into it and determine what should and shouldn't be on there. The biggest issue seems to be people adding tropes based on hunches, or based on someone else's suggestion after two minutes of talking about it (especially whenever tropes are brought up at ATT or there's a minor confusing at Image Pickin'), which is an issue not just because hunches can easily be wrong, but because most of the people who add things like that don't actually come back to do the wick check or make a thread- so things just sit there. I've said this before, but the wick checks and discussions should happen first.

I don't want to suggest we lock the page, but... I might need to suggest that we lock the page if it continues to be misused.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:43:06 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3461: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:43:14 PM

+1 for ShortTermProjects for now

Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#3462: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:43:54 PM

I wouldn't be opposed to that project if it means we can shorten/reorganize it.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3463: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:44:36 PM

I'll make it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3464: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:45:48 PM

Maybe add a note there for tropers to ask about potential issues here first, then put tropes there if it does sound like an issue but nobody is willing to make a thread in near future.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 11th 2022 at 11:46:03 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3465: Jan 11th 2022 at 12:49:09 PM

Derp.

I don't think making everyone discuss everything here is a great idea because there's some issues that don't need much consensus to be considered issues- such as if something isn't thriving or if the misuse is readily apparent and previously talked about.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:50:30 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#3466: Jan 11th 2022 at 1:18:17 PM

BTW, I added myself to the queue for Paradox Expanded Universe Fan Factions. Very quick fix, though.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3467: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:30:20 AM

I posted in the Tropes Needing TRS cleanup thread. My first bit of cleanup was removing IUEO tropes that were added because they attract sinkholes, since out-of-universe examples can already be killed on sight with those tropes.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#3468: Jan 12th 2022 at 3:17:19 AM

Just as a reminder, what am I supposed to do with subpages of renamed tropes aside from moving over the relevant stuff to the new name?

Because "Romantic" Two-Girl Friendship now redirects to Pseudo-Romantic Friendship but still has a laconic and playing with page pointing to it and I don't remember the exact policy on those.

Edit: never mind, they're ghost wicks

Edited by Acebrock on Jan 12th 2022 at 3:18:32 AM

My troper wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3469: Jan 12th 2022 at 4:17:16 AM

If there are ghost wicks, I'll take care of them if they haven't already been taken care of.

Edit: I recreated and cut the pages, so that should have fixed it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 12th 2022 at 6:19:45 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3470: Jan 12th 2022 at 5:34:27 AM

The Wiki Tropes thread is on its penultimate crowner as of today, and Main.Troper has been dewicked, so hopefully we can finally get that thread sent to the Morgue in the near future. (Main.Describe Topic Here still needs to have its wicks moved to JustForFun.Describe Topic Here).

Speaking of the Wiki Tropes thread, how does Sandbox.Tips On Grammar look? As I said in the Wiki Tropes thread, Main.Grammar is so poorly written (it's from the early days of the wiki, while Main.Tips On Grammar came later, and it shows) that I only took one sentence from it while everything else came from Main.Tips On Grammar, so I can't think of anything else to add to Sandbox.Tips On Grammar before moving it to Administrivia.Tips On Grammar. I thought I'd ask here because this thread is more active than the Wiki Tropes thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 12th 2022 at 7:54:15 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
GrafVonTirol We can be heroes, just for one day from a state of boredom (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Standing outside, playing "In Your Eyes" on the boombox
We can be heroes, just for one day
#3471: Jan 12th 2022 at 8:29:59 PM

Decided to change one of my queue entries to Needs A Better Description. Suffers from the same problem that led to Needs Wiki Magic Love being PRLCed.

Edited by GrafVonTirol on Jan 12th 2022 at 8:32:33 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3472: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:02:52 AM

News flash: The Common Newspaper Words thread is out of the way, so there's a new slot open.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#3474: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:13:58 AM

Slot's been taken for Doing It for the Art.

Don't worry, once Wiki Tropes closes there will be another slot.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3475: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:15:16 AM

[up]It might be a while before that thread closes. The threads for You Make Me Sic and Hand Hiding Sleeves might close sooner.

I got a rock for Halloween.

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