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Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1101: Jan 22nd 2024 at 10:07:31 PM

Ghidorah essentially got the Arch-Enemy status simply because he was used a lot in the Showa series against Godzilla.

Four movies where he fought Godzilla. Comparatively, Mechagodzilla and Gigan fought Godzilla twice. And every other Kaiju only fought Godzilla once before either being killed by him... or becomes an ally of Godzilla.

And Ghidorah was notorious enough to require more than one Kaiju to stop. So naturally, he became the most popular Kaiju antagonist aside from Godzilla.

And fans wanted to give Godzilla a more personal reason to hate Ghidorah beyond Even Evil Has Standards in the Showa series (since Showa Godzilla became a genuine hero rather than the classic Anti-Hero we all know him to be in modern times when he's not the bad guy). That's why they emphasize on Ghidorah's debut film since it's the only film to depict Ghidorah as an independent threat. And naturally, those fans ended up creating Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019).

Edited by Shadao on Jan 22nd 2024 at 11:37:58 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1102: Jan 22nd 2024 at 10:09:32 PM

Ghidorah isn't Godzilla's arch-nemesis in the Showa series.

I dunno, I guess being a big enough threat to force Godzilla and Rodan to team up elevated Ghidorah as a character.

It also helps that Ghidorah is ALWAYS opposed to Godzilla, no matter who is the hero and who is the villain.

Sure, they don't exactly have a traditional dynamic like Peter and Norman like you said, but they are giant monsters so I think standards have to be flexible enough that we can consider threat level a bigger factor in Ghidorah being Godzilla's arch enemy as well as amount of times they fought.

[up]

Yeah, that as well. I agree, Gidorah is eternally Godzilla's enemy and battled him across several continuities.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jan 23rd 2024 at 2:11:30 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#1103: Jan 23rd 2024 at 12:24:20 PM

[up][up] "Akshually"

Rebirth of Mothra 3 was the second film to portray Ghidorah as an independent villain, in fact King of the Monsters took a lot of inspiration from his portrayal there (genocidal planetary threat, millions of years old, responsible for various events in the past, regenerating and having lightning wings). So that'd make 2 Toho films where he's the out-and-out Big Bad

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#1104: Jan 23rd 2024 at 2:49:11 PM

I do love how the Monsterverse continuity made Ghidorah the main villain in every movie it shows up, and every time the boring humans attempt to control it, it ALWAYS backfires.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#1105: Jan 24th 2024 at 12:40:20 AM

Even Mechagodzilla — Godzilla's other most famous adversary — is really King Gidorah again, who hijacked it.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1106: Jan 24th 2024 at 12:46:22 AM

What's hilarious that Mechagodzilla is just a machine controlled by others to fight Godzilla, with Kiyru being a complicated exception.

Monsterverse Mechagodzilla is the first Mechagodzilla to become sentient AND EVIL all thanks to Ghidorah.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1107: Jan 24th 2024 at 12:54:35 AM

Which weirdly enough makes Monsterverse Mechagodzilla a foil to Heisei Era's Mecha Ghidorah.

Both are made using a dead Ghidorah, but the Heisei Era Mecha Ghidorah stays a machine that is piloted by someone else.

Edited by M84 on Jan 25th 2024 at 4:55:50 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1108: Jan 24th 2024 at 7:50:11 PM

Just got to Invasion of Astro-Monster in my watchthrough.

So, I've seen this movie several times before. It's kinda one of the ones I grew up with on DVD. So giving it a rewatch hasn't really changed my opinion of it from before, and I don't really have much to say on it beyond...well, it's just a pretty good, pretty fun movie with a fine human cast and great setpieces. The Xians are iconic villains of the franchise, love their outfits and those silly visors and everything. Some of the human characters are actually pretty decent this time around. Nick Adams is pretty good, maybe a little over-animated but otherwise takes it a lot more seriously than most actors might (I watched it dubbed because that's what Max had, but at least that lets me listen to his actual voice...they dubbed him over in the original Japanese). Adams and Akira Takarada actually have some really good chemistry with each other, gotta give them props for making this work past the language barrier.

I'll say that one noticeable thing is this feels like a revisit of the themes of The Mysterians, except done a lot better? Even beyond the human cast being far more interesting, there's the major theme of blind, unfeeling devotion to technology and science without ethical boundaries versus humanity with all its emotions and brotherhood. But Astro-Monster just does it better than The Mysterians. Maybe the cast sells it better, maybe the pacing is tighter, I dunno.

Beyond that, there's some fun kaiju stuff, but it's not really that prominent compared to the previous films? Like, this is mostly a sci-fi film with kaiju as a side-thing until the big rampage climax (which, unfortunately, uses some stock footage because of the budget being lower). There's some good fights with Godzilla and Rodan versus Ghidorah, you get Godzilla doing the Shee dance (something Honda REALLY didn't like), and the rampage scenes that aren't stock footage are well done. It's a 7/10 for me. It's not my favorite Godzilla film, but it's just a really fun sci-fi flick at the end of the day.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#1109: Jan 24th 2024 at 8:18:19 PM

[up] I've always wondered how the suit actor was able to do that dance in the bulky costume, considering he had to jump in the air. I'd probably have a hard time doing that without the suit.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1110: Jan 24th 2024 at 9:01:43 PM

Nakajima apparently wasn't fond of the idea of doing the Shee dance, not unlike Honda.

I'm not sure if it was Tsuburaya who came up with the idea or if someone suggested it to Tsuburaya and he liked it, but it kind of highlights the divide between Honda and Tsuburaya's conception of the kaiju genre. Honda preferred the idea of the kaiju lacking anthropomorphic traits, while Tsuburaya liked the idea of going goofier so the kids could enjoy them. Honda even said in an interview that something like Son of Godzilla would not have been made if he was directing lol.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#1111: Jan 25th 2024 at 2:40:52 PM

Wonder if you'll ever do something like this for the Gamera franchise.

Because its very obvious that most of the later Showa films of Godzilla were done in response to how the Kid friendly Gamera films were doing really well at the time, even in spite of their gory violence (Godzilla in later showa films even starts bleeding a lot not too dissimilar to the Gamera movies)

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Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1112: Jan 25th 2024 at 2:48:38 PM

I'm considering going through the Gamera movies, maybe some other non-Toho kaiju films too.

MysteryPerson Impi Master from I am inside your walls. Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Impi Master
#1113: Jan 25th 2024 at 3:16:06 PM

God, the Gamera movies the end of the Showa era were made in increasingly lower budgets, which led to some glorious trainwrecks. Like two of them were mostly shilling for the place where they filmed the movie. I'm just going to spoil the last one with the absolute lowest budget because it deserves to be talked about. Basically, the plot is where some aliens bring the bad guys of the previous movies back to life, and then they just used unaltered footage from previous movies to represent the fight scenes. and the only new footage is following some kid and some women around against some evil space woman and they have an awful fight scene in a playground.

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ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#1114: Jan 25th 2024 at 3:22:44 PM

The "Spacewomen" are one of those Showa era oddities I want to see re-imagined in modern times. Give them a B-plot in destroying an anti-gamera weapon so he can go smash the Big Bad. Maybe not make their origins obvious stand ins for Ultraman.

You are not alone.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1115: Jan 29th 2024 at 7:46:33 PM

Just watched Frankenstein vs. Baragon. I'd never seen this one before, so I wasn't sure what to expect going on...but hooh was it a FUN movie.

There's something really unique about it being a kaiju movie where only one monster is played by an actor in a rubber suit, while the other is just an actor with some prosthetics. Ol' Franky boy is just a kaiju-sized wildman played with some sympathy, and Koji Furuhata is having a ball with the role. Baragon is a weirdly cute monster, too? People bring up the eyes and the floppy ears, but the crawling also works. And god, that climactic fight is so entertaining. The model work on Baragon's entrance is great too. I dunno how Tsuburaya was able to do it, but there's these great choices of oil gushing out of the ground and Baragon's head buried beneath it all, and it's just amazing. Shame some of the compositing shots are pretty bad tongue

Human cast is kinda eh. Nick Adams was great in Invasion of Astro-Monster but he's just kinda here in this one. But more than that, there's kind of a thematic issue? The first half portion is set up like it's building to one of Honda's usual focus on mankind's relationship with science. Like, the opening is a great flashback from 1945 Frankfurt to Hiroshima, and the setup is about the lingering radioactive fallout and the effects it still has on the children and descendants of those affected by the bomb (hell, ol' Franky boy is literally a child who grew up right after the bombing), but then it kinda falls to the wayside as it becomes more standard giant monster fare. It's not too bad, I guess, but definitely a bit of a disappointing part of the movie. The ending is a little abrupt too (but god, I'd take this over that dumb octopus ending Saperstein wanted lmao).

But overall? Really fun movie, really unique compared to most kaiju films. Solid 8/10, definitely one I could watch again.

Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#1116: Jan 29th 2024 at 8:26:16 PM

And Baragon's one and only appearance was somehow so popular that he got a role in the Millennium series decades later.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1117: Jan 29th 2024 at 8:37:26 PM

Honestly? I can kinda see it. Baragon's got a distinctive design, but he's also got that weirdly cute look that's prime for merchandise.

Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#1118: Jan 29th 2024 at 9:55:45 PM

Speaking of the Gamera movies, it's interesting how Gamera's most noteworthy enemy — Gyaos — contrasts with Godzilla's King Ghidorah.

Like, Gyaos in the Heisei era is absolutely Gamera's nemeses — he was created solely to destroy them, and he's so hell-bent on that task that he's seemly indifferent to the humans in the way. And yet, they're the weakest monsters Gamera fights. Even the Super Gyaos is only at Gamera's level. Same with "Rebirth" on Netflix.

Ghidorah is always a powerful opponent who required a team-up the first time he appeared. Gyaos was just another monster of the movie who was elevated due to a memorable design and being in a better film.

Edited by Dracoblade on Jan 29th 2024 at 11:01:11 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#1119: Jan 29th 2024 at 10:05:58 PM

Gyaos was apparently made in response to Toho's Frankenstein movies (Frankenstein vs. Baragon and War of the Gargantuas). Toho used one Universal Horror monster, so Daei decided to make their own Dracula tongue

Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#1120: Jan 29th 2024 at 11:07:51 PM

I've heard that too. Which makes it all the weirder when they're constantly referred to as birds, when they're obviously bats. (Dracula wasn't turning into a pigeon, man!)

Edited by Dracoblade on Jan 29th 2024 at 11:11:11 AM

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#1121: Jan 30th 2024 at 5:02:20 PM

The cool thing about Gyaos is that despite being weak they're by far the most destructive and dangerous kaiju of the franchise, since they are shown to be extremely quick at reproducing and devour anything that gets in their path without rest.

Other stronger kaiju are often one-man shows but the Gyaos are a whole-ass swarm that also replaces dead ones as quick as they do lose them

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Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#1122: Jan 30th 2024 at 8:13:39 PM

Yeah, and that also helps set Gamera apart from the other Big G-man, who doesn't have a similar character.

I think they're most like the Dalaks from Doctor Who, in that there's no one enemy, the entire race is Gamera's arch-rival.

Edited by Dracoblade on Jan 30th 2024 at 8:14:07 AM

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#1123: Jan 30th 2024 at 8:37:56 PM

I really liked how the Heisei Gamera did it... Well I like how the Heisei Gamera did a lot of things... You could really sense Gamera's desperation to pick off the Gyaos before they matured. And then at the climax you saw why. Fantastic movie all around.

You know everyone wants Gamera Vs Godzilla (Including me. God, including me.) but Cthulhu's public domain and Godzilla's only ever fought like, one Squid monster.

You are not alone.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1124: Jan 30th 2024 at 11:53:02 PM

There's also a personal connection between the Gyaos and Gamera that Ghidorah and Godzilla lack. Namely that the Gyaos and Gamera were both creations of Atlantis. Gamera was in fact created specifically to stop the out of control Gyaos.

Even in Gamera the Brave, the antagonist Kaiju Zedus in that movie is revealed in side materials to be connected to the Gyaos. Zedus was originally just an ordinary sea creature that was mutated into a monster after eating the remains of the Gyaos. It is fitting that Gamera's successor Toto's first boss fight is against a monster that is the last legacy of the Gyaos.

Edited by M84 on Jan 31st 2024 at 3:55:14 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1125: Jan 31st 2024 at 10:43:32 AM

I don't know Gyaos terribly well but all this discussion of them brings to mind Destoroyah. He's also a threat because of sheer numbers (though then they, you know. Merge and all which it doesn't sound like Gyaos does) and he's very notably tied into Godzilla in terms of origin.

... god, I love the name Destoroyah.

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