That means we should vote to make it No Real Life Examples Please
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Guys, your decision to cut it to revert the trope back to the way it was before the change means that stuff like Dangerously Genre-Savvy, Functional Genre Savvy, Contractual Genre Blindless Death by Genre Savviness and JustForFun.The Universal Genre Savvy Guide all need to either have their names checked or changed or needs to have their descriptions checked simply because they all rely on, to some degree, the old definition of the trope.
I've pointed this out several times, but you didn't actually pay attention to this.
As I said before, the trope had decayed to the point where "Savvy" became entirely what the trope's about within the minds of fellow tropers. I'm not saying we shouldn't cleanup the misuse. Simply that we should've think things more thoroughly before deciding to revert the trope to its definition before it was changed to cover the misuse that had resulted in Trope Decay.
(Also, I don't believe in sending everything into Trope Talk, especially in this case - this is the Trope Repair Shop, not a place to store "projects to clean up the trope").
edited 2nd Mar '15 10:22:31 PM by KarjamP
It might need a little cleanup but what exactly is wrong with Dangerously Genre-Savvy?
The mere fact that many examples of Dangerously Genre-Savvy, and the trope itself, to my knowledge, rely on the old definition of Genre Savvy.
Dangerously Genre-Savvy is about the person's attempt to "defy tropes to their own advantage". Many of the examples on that page, including the page picture, doesn't convey the idea that the characters got their knowledge through knowing fiction through the back of their hands.
While it makes perfect sense to just rename Dangerously Genre-Savvy and remove the problematic statement concerning "using their Genre Savviness to their advantage", the mere fact remains that the decision to remove that paragraph to clean up the tropes may not be as well thought out as we may have assumed, at first.
I would also like to point out that Genre Blindness also relies on the Trope Decay to the extent that it actually Snowclones Genre Savvy.
Not only that, but Genre Savvy still claims that Genre Blindness is its opposite.
That's why I said, while I was still trying to defend the paragraph, that the trope's a nail with several tropes - the Trope Decay is so ingrained within the wiki itself that attempting to revert the Trope Decay results in the Butterfly Effect simply due to several tropes relying on them.
Either we adapt Genre Savvy to the misuse simply due to how ingrained it is within this wiki, or we fix those tropes as well (as well as at least one Just for Fun page).
edited 2nd Mar '15 11:27:56 PM by KarjamP
There is no "old definition" of Genre Savvy. There was a paragraph that contradicted the page and there is all sorts of misuse.
It's already decided that we're not adapting Genre Savvy to the misuse. We'll need to address those pages at some point.
If those other pages need to be looked at after we finish up with this one, then we can open threads on them. The fact that they may need changes as a result of this is utterly irrelevant to what we are doing here. I don't speak for anyone else, but I for one didn't ignore your prior assertions - I merely found them to be irrelevant.
edited 3rd Mar '15 2:02:41 AM by Zyffyr
I honestly don't really think we have to work on those other tropes. They also follow the original definition of Genre Savvy.
MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWWKarjam, "Fixing <this page> means that we'll also have to fix <that page> as well" has never been a reason to not fix a broken page. This thread was about Genre Savvy. Those other tropes, while related, are not topics of discussion in this thread.
If they are misused or broken, then they get a TRS thread of their own. But the OPs of those thead will need to demonstrate that they are, in fact, broken.
edited 3rd Mar '15 3:42:07 AM by Madrugada
I was just pointing out based upon my assumptions, that's all.
Besides, I was more into "playing devil's advocate" because I wasn't sure removing that paragraph was the most ideal solution available. If I play devil's advocate, like what I just did now, it's more an attempt to figure things out than because I'm upset with the change.
Anyway, just because it wasn't the "original" version of the trope doesn't automatically mean we couldn't adapt to it.
Not saying that we should, since obviously, you've already decided on the solution, but still, my point was that many people had identified the trope as meaning that.
...You know, thinking about it further, I am now starting to think I agree with the change, especially since I've now figured out what it genuinely means to be Genre Savvy. I apologize for my efforts.
edited 3rd Mar '15 7:25:46 AM by KarjamP
Regarding the Real Life examples discussed above:
Surely we can remove any individual such example on the grounds that it's Not An Example (real life has no genre, so the trope does not apply)?
I think it's still a good idea to take it to the NRLEP thread, since that will prevent people from adding new real life examples in the future.
There's already a discussion about it in that thread.
A lot of the examples are generic or plain shoehorns no matter how you view it, though, and can be removed either way. I planned on taking an axe to it, but I'd rather wait until the vote is done in that thread to say whether it's a wasted effort to sift it through or not.
Check out my fanfiction!Hoo boy... just went over the GenreSavvy.Anime And Manga page... detailed changes are below in folders, if anyone wants to look over them. If the rest of the pages have this much shoehorning, we might have few enough examples to put all the examples on one page again...
- Ah! My Goddess:
- In the arc where Urd is split into her Goddess and Demon selves, Skuld shows a bit of Savvy when Demon Urd mixes the two of them up and tries to play Spot the Imposter. It doesn't work, because Skuld wrote an identifier on Goddess Urd's backside before they even found the other: this was totally not just for Fanservice.
- Axis Powers Hetalia:
- During the 2011 Christmas Event, Cuba seems to be the first one to realize that countries are being kidnapped one by one and that the best thing to do is to stick together. He then takes a turn into Wrong Genre Savvy by trying to convince England that he can do Offscreen Teleportation.
- Black Lagoon:
- Rotton the Wizard actually has the sense to wear some body armor (and a groin protector) when pursuing Roberta. Despite being a Joke Character, he ends up being the only merc to walk away on his own power from the Greenback Jane arc siege.
- Bleach:
- Tite Kubo has a reputation for characters ambushing opponents in an attempt to strike the back of the neck. He addresses this habit directly when Ichigo tries it on Aizen. All he hits is an automatically-activated shield prompting Aizen to explain that he never enters battle without protecting such an obvious weak spot.
- When Urahara appears to explode Aizen to death, Ichigo's attempt to congratulate him is halted by Urahara himself. Urahara explains that while it might be cute to think Aizen has died and therefore relax, he's not an ordinary monster and will very shortly return. He's right.
- Code Geass:
- By the series' end, Kallen's become familiar enough with Lelouch's Large Ham tactics to know that, if he says a cool-sounding philosophical line while making a dramatic gesture with his hands, it means he's about to do something incredibly improbable to screw over his enemies.
- Death Note
- Villain Protagonist Light Yagami:
- He is also well aware of I Never Said It Was Poison tactics, and is extremely careful with how he acts and what he says, managing to avoid every trap question L throws his way.
- The only thing that stops him from being victorious is that he's not savvy enough to suppress his arrogance.
- He is also well aware of I Never Said It Was Poison tactics, and is extremely careful with how he acts and what he says, managing to avoid every trap question L throws his way.
- Dragon Ball Z:
- Kid Buu might count as well while almost every major villain in Dragon Ball Z threatens to blow up the Planet they're on to kill the heroes, Buu is the only one who actually does it before fighting the heroes and without announcing first. The "might" comes from the fact that Kid Buu seems to be lacking in intellect; he just goes off of his chaotic instincts of destroying everything he sees.
- Because he was made up of the cells of Vegeta and other pure blooded Saiyans such as Goku, Raditz and Nappa, Cell knew that Vegeta's greatest weakness is his pride and that a Saiyan would be willing to go to great lengths for good battle because they love a challenge and love to fight. Semi-Perfect Cell then uses that weakness to manipulate Vegeta by telling him that if he had the chance to reach his perfect form he would become a worthy adversary, and he claims that Vegeta would be no match for him. Vegeta falls for it and helps Cell achieve his perfect form.
- In a filler scene in the Cell arc, Goku is on the hunt for the dragonballs again, and finds one of them held by his old foe Mercenary Tao. Tao knows full well he doesn't have a prayer of defeating Goku in a fight... but he does know that Goku isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. So he makes a deal: if Goku can figure out a few wire puzzles before dawn of the next day, he gets the dragonball. Goku, good sport that he is, accepts, while Tao uses the opportunity to get as far away as possible just in case he lost his bet. Unfortunately for Tao, Goku is able to undo the wire puzzles in time, and thanks to his new instant transmission ability, takes the dragonball anyway.
- And of course, Goku himself shows a moment of this when he asks Gohan to fight Cell in his place, solely to let his own son get backed into a corner and invoke Unstoppable Rage since Gohan's rampages are among the scariest in the whole story. Piccolo is quick to point out how dangerous and cruel this is, and Goku goes My God, What Have I Done? upon realising the implications.
- Fullmetal Alchemist
- Edward Elric shows great perception throughout the manga, like realizing that he can imitate the attack of the enemy or realizing that pressing the enemy's Berserk Button actually helps in a battle, or that a shadow monster doesn't exist without light, etc.
- Got a villain who can transmute his skin into an invulnerable material? No problem! Transmute that armor-skin into something else, and THEN stab him!
- In the same manga (and Brotherhood anime), Roy Mustang, who knows How To Survive A War Movie, loses his cool in a flashback to the Ishvalan War when his buddy Maes gets all excited about a letter from his girlfriend Gracia. Maes survives the war, though he does not learn from his mistakes.
- GaoGaiGar:
- Both heroes and villains show various moments of Genre Savviness that it seems like they were trying to outdo each other! Guy punches a Zondar in the face a moment after it regenerates its face instead of staring at it in shock, numerous Zondar tend to try to attack Guy during his Transformation Sequence, 3G's had backup protocols for lack of the Final Fusion program, etc.
- GoLion:
- The first Beast Fighter fought (what Americans would know as Voltron) was extremely Genre Savvy, being the only monster in the series that was smart enough to attack the separate lion robots before they could combine.
- Gundam Build Fighters:
- One of the protagonists' Mid Season Upgrades is a beam absorption shield that does pretty much exactly what it sounds like. It gets used in one battle in the World Tournament to great effect... and then never really gets a chance to shine again because all of their opponents either stop using beam weapons against them or make it a priority to destroy the shield first. As one would expect of world-class competitors.
- JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
- Dio Brando from Part 3 gets into Dangerously Genre-Savvy territory, as he usually does not take chances when it comes to his known weaknesses (he's a vampire, after all). For example, instead of throwing one knife (which he knows the hero can block), Dio stops time and throws about 10 to 20 knives in succession so that he can't possibly block them all. After that, the scene plays out like this: Jotaro is lying on the ground, apparently dead. Dio first listens for breathing. Then he moves closer and listens for a heartbeat. Jotaro first holds his breath, and then uses his Stand to keep his own heart from beating. So then Dio decides to grab a stop sign from the street corner and decapitate Jotaro, just to be sure. And later, just to be really, really sure, he drops a steamroller on him. Is it any wonder that this guy is one of the most beloved anime villains of all time?
- On the heroic side, Jotaro shows signs of this during the battle against Akira Otoishi. He forces his opponent to switch to plan B by correctly guessing his entire strategy before they even started fighting, including any bluffs and gambits that Akira might employ given the current situation.
- Every time something strange happens around them, Jotaro and co immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be an enemy Stand. They're always right.
- Another Big Bad, Yoshikage Kira, is Dangerously Genre-Savvy to the point where he's downright paranoid!
- You'd expect that fictional Nazis, after having found a millenia-old super-vampire, would immediately attempt to bend it to their will, only to suffer horrible Karmic Deaths. Instead, they realize that said vampire is far beyond their control, and lock it up while they research and experiment to find a way to kill it...only to suffer horrible deaths anyway.
- At the beginning of Battle Tendency, Speedwagon finds one of the Pillar Men, surrounded by stone masks, trapped and comatose, but still alive. He calls his most powerful friend, Straights, to the site because he has no interest in studying it or its origins but only wants Straights to kill it before it wakes up. A sound plan, if not for Straights betraying him.
- Junjou Romantica
- Misaki Takahashi, to his eternal despair. He knows very well what Usami would want as a present.
- Kill la Kill:
- Ryuko realizes before her fight with Hoka that he's the Awesomeness by Analysis kind of combatant who would analyze her moves to figure out how to dodge them, and thus adopts a more reckless and unpredictable style to try and throw him off.
- Lupin III: Travels of Marco Polo – Another Page:
- Zenigata utilizes serial fiction genre savviness. When Lupin is captured, he attempts to rip off the mask to reveal it isn't Lupin, because Lupin isn't that easy to catch. Subverted when it turns out to actually be Lupin. And then played straight again when Lupin breaks himself and Bao Long out of prison.
- Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha:
- Hayate Yagami not only Jumped at the Call after witnessing the Wolkenritter and hearing their story, but she designed their costume-like Barrier Jackets. Having people recognizable as family probably helped too (she's an orphan).
- Maison Ikkoku:
- Normally, Kyoko tends to think the worst of Godai when it comes to other women. The exception being schoolgirl Ibuki Yagami, who has an (unreturned) crush on Godai-sensei. Nothing that she tries fazes Kyoko the least (Godai isn't so lucky). Kyoko's late husband was one of her teachers and she knows that story inside and out.
- Mazinger Z:
- The Professor Gennosuke Yumi was pretty Genre Savvy. For example, he made sure they got spare parts for Mazinger-Z ready to be used in case of an emergency (during one battle Mazinger had lost his fists and they launched spare Rocket Punches at its location to help Kouji). In another episode three workers of the Institute disappeared but he did not really believe they were dead because their bodies were not found. And he memorized the plans for the Jet Scrander in case of they were stolen (and indeed, they were).
- Naruto:
- Pain is most certainly this. Unlike every other villain in the entire manga, he doesn't take the time to explain or brag about all of his abilities, drastically improving his effectiveness. Several people die just trying to figure out what he can do. It isn't until his abilities are discovered through old fashioned trial and error that anyone is even slightly effective against him.
- One Piece:
- Zoro and Nami were this in the Whiskey Peak arc. They were suspicious of the townspeople of Whiskey Peak and why they were so friendly and accommodating to any arriving pirate crew, so they faked being drunk (helped by their inhumanly high alcohol tolerance) to see what the townspeople were up to. And they were right; the townspeople were Bounty Hunters waiting to trap unsuspecting pirates. In contrast, Luffy, Usopp and Sanji didn't suspect a thing.
- Lawful Good antagonist Smoker is this, shown at the very latest during his first post-Time Skip appearance. When a group of pirates that came up from Fishman Island mention that they were held prisoner by a group of evil pirates, but were saved thanks to another group of pirates, Smoker knows before they even tell him that it was the Straw Hats. That could be attributed to the fact that he knew they were back and knew of their current position, but the next action of his is this trope to a T: there are three possible islands that the Straw Hats could go to upon leaving Fishman Island. Smoker goes to wait for them at the most dangerous one, because he knows that that's where Luffy will go.
- Pokémon
- Pokémon Hunter J could be this. She's the only villain that hasn't been arrested or beaten voluntarily. In the two-parter Riolu episode, she is removed from the plot after delivering her quarry, then, when Ash and Company show up, she tells her henchman that they have their money, and they depart, leaving the client to be arrested.
- She's also one of the few villains of the show to use the expedient of attacking the Kid with the Leash, rather than the mons themselves. This forces them to scramble for defense and throws them off their game. She is furthermore completely unaverse to directly trying to kill Ash.
- In one episode, an Officer Jenny manages to instantly defeat the poacher that, earlier, has beat Team Rocket to a pulp...by having her Growlithe steal the poacher's Pokéball containing his Tyranitar, completely bypassing the need for a Pokémon battle. A very rare occurrence in the anime.
- Pokémon Hunter J could be this. She's the only villain that hasn't been arrested or beaten voluntarily. In the two-parter Riolu episode, she is removed from the plot after delivering her quarry, then, when Ash and Company show up, she tells her henchman that they have their money, and they depart, leaving the client to be arrested.
- Pokemon Special:
- A particular Galactic mook notes the fact that anyone who comes across a Pokedex will play a key role in a major, region-wide battle involving legendary Pokemon. In other words, he knows who the main characters are in the story.
- Subverted, though. Said Galactic Mook is under control from Sird, who has fought and seen fights with the Pokedex holders and knows that they are often involved a lot. That said, this makes Sird very Genre Savvy herself.
- A particular Galactic mook notes the fact that anyone who comes across a Pokedex will play a key role in a major, region-wide battle involving legendary Pokemon. In other words, he knows who the main characters are in the story.
- Reiko the Zombie Shop:
- The titular character Reiko Himezono is genre savvy in that she's very competent at her job and is intimately familiar with the things that could go wrong, such as a resurrected zombie going berserk if the person responsible for their death is nearby, knowing that said zombie would not attack a complete stranger for no reason, and carrying around a tape recorder with pre-recorded chants with her if something goes wrong. The latter proves handy when she crosses paths with psychotic child murderer Saki Yurikawa and has her throat slit. Reiko anticipated something like that would happen and switched on a recording of her standard resurrection chant beforehand, zombifying herself in order to personally deal with Yurikawa. She gets better in the next volume, though.
- Spirited Away:
- It could be chalked up as childish fear, but Chihiro immediately knows that something is wrong with the abandoned amusement park she and her parents had stumbled upon, as well as eating food that doesn't belong to them.
- Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann:
- Rossiu was very savvy as the rest of the cast fell for the hot springs trap.
- Simon becomes rather Genre Savvy in the last two arcs, recognizing that they've always snatched victory at the last second from the jaws of defeat merely by being sheer bloody-minded Determinators, in stark contrast to Rossiu who thinks things like "plans" and "logic" have any effect in a universe governed by the Rule of Cool. Kamina has the same mindset before Simon, but this is less to do with being Genre Savvy than it does Kamina being the kind to charge in without a plan. Fanboys try to ignore all the times this didn't really work.
- Yu-Gi-Oh!: Capsule Monsters:
- Téa is well aware that the group often runs into trouble, and hopes things will be normal on their vacation. They aren't.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! GX
- The dubbed version often has Adrian Gecko (Amon Garam) poke fun at show as a whole and point out how ridiculous some of the game mechanics are in his duel with Chazz Princeton (Jun Manjoume):
- A Certain Magical Index:
- Various characters point out certain things, including making references to dating sims when talking about Touma's harem, among other ways.
- Bleach:
- Ginjou knows what the expected stereotypes are for shounen villains and therefore deliberately invokes them to make Ichigo feels as though his life is on the line to obtain the power-up he desperately needs.
- Daily Lives of High School Boys:
- Hidenori is quite savvy in gaming tropes, and in some cases, tropes in anime storytelling (such as Comic-Book Time or Late for School).
- Yanagin at least aware of gender perceptions as portrayed during the previous decade's fiction.
- Yanagin's sempai, at the very least, knowing most girls in last decade's fiction are ditzy to an extreme.
- Deadline Summonner:
- Mamoru Onodera, the main character, was a video game obsessed Otaku before getting sucked into an RPG. He is very much aware of how the world works and how to avoid getting seriously injured and/or killed. Not that the universe allows him to, though.
- High School Dx D:
- Nearly everyone is at least at some level of this. It's to the point where Azazel and the Maous outline the motivations of the Hero Faction in video game terms.
- Sairaorg is well aware of Issei's Determinator and Chivalrous Pervert behaviors and uses this to snap the Occult Research Club out of a Heroic BSoD after Issei dies. By pointing out that Issei wouldn't stay dead because he hasn't had sex with Rias yet.
- Azazel manages to motivate Issei into fighting harder by pointing out that Vali's Half Dimension attack can halve the size of Rias's breasts.
- The Lucifer And Biscuit Hammer:
- Amamiya Yuuhi displayed a large amount of dating sim genre savviness on multiple occasions. One occasion during which he specifically chose to walk in on Asahina changing, knowing this type of situation usually engenders "special events".
- At another time, instead of opening the door onto a changing girl, he felt accomplished instead, by having a girl walk in on him naked as a "special event"
- Sami also remarks, at a certain point when Yuuhi suddenly grabs her face in during a dream that, had this been a romantic comedy, he'd have grabbed her boobs instead of her head.
- During the final fight of the manga, Mikazuki realizes that final dramatic fights must be ended with a one-on-one Cross Counter or a Single-Stroke Battle or similarly dramatic mutual 'final technique', and charges up for a final super punch with a ludicrously long and awesome name. When Yuuhi moves in to oblige him, Mikazuki kicks him in the face instead and wins the match.
- The World God Only Knows:
- Keima is an internet-famous genius when it comes to Dating Sims, so when Hell has a problem with evil spirits hiding inside schoolgirls—where making them fall in love is the only way to exorcise them — they call him. And despite Keima's dislike of real girls, it works.
- You can tell from early on when he's able to point out the local rich girl is a tsundere because she has cat eyes, light hair, a visible forehead and twintails. He's a little disappointed that she's not short to make it perfect, but then Elsee points out she's also wearing high heels.
- "A stranger appearing in a time of crisis is 100% SUSPICIOUS!!"
- Bizenghast:
- Edaniel comes to after being knocked out, and looks for the others, who have managed to get lost. Edaniel claims that he "knew this would happen."
- Bleach:
- Ichigo is well aware the villains regard him as a good candidate for the Breaking Speech. He's sick to the back teeth of it and isn't beyond telling them so. The anime tends to combine this with No Fourth Wall for certain filler episodes by putting Ichigo into the role of Only Sane Man for comedy purposes. He can tell what's going to happen based on the genre and sometimes even questions who on earth has been writing the episode.
- Blue Dragon:
- Zola. In the second episode, after she effortlessly destroys several dozen enemy robots, the remaining ones begin combining into a single much larger robot. Zola notes that it would be stupid of her to wait for them to finish, and successfully attacks before the Transformation Sequence is finished.
- Eyeshield 21:
- Shin leaves the Deimon-Kyoshin game early when Deimon was behind because he knew Eyeshield 21 would use some crazy technique to win it all like he has done so many times before.
- Kid likes to quote, "Something bad will happen after something so good" and vice versa. It always happens.
- Fairy Tail
- Happy fancies himself very genre savvy about the comedy genre, often predicting the outcome of various gags…only to be proven only partially correct.
- At one point, Natsu, Happy, Grey and Erza are looking for Lucy and search her house. Grey reaches her bathroom and has an Imagine Spot of him walking in on her in the bath, complete with getting called a pervert and having something thrown at his face. His response? "It was bound to happen sooner or later."
- Genshiken:
- Most of the characters are major, major otaku and therefore genre savvy, but share Konata's affliction of being unable to tell exactly what kind of anime they're in. Most of the guys seem to visualise life as a dating sim, and beat themselves up about it when they realise it.
- Haruhi Suzumiya:
- The title character sees everything in terms of TV and anime tropes, even where they might not otherwise have been. She borders between being a wrong and being an accurate Genre Savvy. Since she is an all-powerful Reality Warper with unstoppable willpower, she actually makes herself become accurate.
- Koizumi himself is a Genre Savvy character too, using it to his advantage to convince Haruhi of certain things. Sometimes it does work, sometimes it backfires at him.
- Kyon also is a pretty Genre Savvy guy, usually expressing it with snarky remarks.
- Hayate the Combat Butler:
- The show has No Fourth Wall, meaning that this shows up a lot. Almost everyone is Genre Savvy about the fact that they're in a shounen anime/manga and what that usually entails. Key word: usually.
- The trick is, they don't know they're in a parody.
- Ikki Tousen:
- The series is basically "Romance Of The Three Kingdoms, Gender Flipped and as a High School AU". Well, the teenage fighters know they're the reincarnations of these heroes, and several of them use such knowledge to their advantage as they fight their ways in the story, searching for a way to either fulfill or screw their fates. Even the Idiot Hero Hakufu shows savviness in these regards.
- Inazuma Eleven:
- The anime tends to portray Megane this way sometimes, although he usually fails at trying to use it to his advantage. On one occasion, he starts with an annoyed rant in the middle of a soccer match, and gets even more annoyed when an opponent tries to steal the ball from him in mid-speech, because Talking Is Supposed To Be A Free Action.
- Kannagi:
- Akiba Meguru, being a "self-conscious akiba-freak", is Genre Savvy to the extreme, even recognizing that Mikuriya Jin for what he is:
- Lucky Star:
- Konata is Genre Savvy to the point of being a trope-fixated Cloudcuckoolander. She recognizes tropes and conventions... but never seems to be able to tell which actually apply to her own genre. Sometimes she gets it right, but other times, she applies tropes that are spectacularly wrong for her situation, referencing Dating Sim event flags or deciding the dentist sounds like a classic mecha anime.
- Mahou Sensei Negima
- The "library girls", quite understandably, read a lot of books... which means they're quite willing to accept the idea that their teacher is secretly a wizard. In particular, Paru (Saotome Haruna, herself supposed to be an amateur manga artist!) is all too willing to participate in cliche storylines.
- But then, one character is Genre Savvy enough to freak out when she realizes that she's in a Love Triangle, and those never end well... (especially not in Japanese literature!)
- In a curious and almost tragic use of this trope, Ako expresses her lack of self-confidence and feeling of being "ordinary" by saying she's literally "just a supporting character". Negi, of course, tries to reassure her that she is important... but in the context of the manga as a whole, she's exactly right about her lack of importance. At least so far...
- This comes up again (much) later on. In chapter 245 she shows that even a "side-character" can be incredibly important when she keeps Negi from getting blackmailed into slavery by Tosaka by offering herself in his place.
- Not to mention that the sole reason that Negi is even able to get back up after Jack Rakan pounded him is because he promised her he would win and he's going to win. That's pretty important.
- Also, Chisame often points out, that in this World of Magic, not everything is shining and clean, and often worried about Negi's obsession with Nagi, who ends the war, and effectively ruining some people's plans, and often worrying if Negi had troubling parents. She's right about all that.
- Oh! Edo Rocket
- Because the show has No Fourth Wall, some of the characters are genre savvy. For example, in the English version, there is a point where Tetsuju falls off a hovering space ship and crashes to the floor of a rocky canyon. Sora then assures Seikichi, "Don't worry, he'll be fine. He's the comic relief!"
- Shinza says the same thing about himself after he narrowly escapes being arrested and is nearly sliced in half inside his hiding place. "Good thing I'm the comic relief!"
- Because the show has No Fourth Wall, some of the characters are genre savvy. For example, in the English version, there is a point where Tetsuju falls off a hovering space ship and crashes to the floor of a rocky canyon. Sora then assures Seikichi, "Don't worry, he'll be fine. He's the comic relief!"
- Pokémon
- In addition to frequent Medium Awareness, Team Rocket are particularly genre savvy, especially regarding their own role. They know they are the bad guys, they know they are there to harass the good guys, and they know they suck at it. Why do they go on? Because it's what they do.
- School Rumble
- Akira is the only one who actually understands the Love Dodecahedron, even using that knowledge to manipulate people. As demonstrated in the Beach Episode, where a naked Harima winds up grappling a bikini-clad Eri, not only is Akira fully aware that it's Not What It Looks Like instead of jumping to the obvious conclusion, she is also capable of explaining in great detail exactly what happened.
- Tsurupika Hagemaru-kun
- Hagemaru suffers from this and Medium Awareness.
Hagemaru: I can do anything, I'm the hero of this series! —->not sure if this should stay here or be moved to Medium Awareness
- Violinist Of Hameln:
- The demon generals immediate orders after conquering a country are:
Dragon King Drum: Ain't that always a bitch? —->Might be meta knowledge, might be real world experience
edited 3rd Mar '15 10:17:16 AM by ObsidianFire
Hmm there are quite a few I recognize in the cut part that would actually be examples but phrasing in the entries are just horrible and misleading.
Stuff like Kyon in Haruhi and Chisame in Negima are Meta Guy and those entries don't even make sense.
I can go more indepth after work.
edited 3rd Mar '15 10:26:16 AM by Memers
Nearly all the misuse on the GenreSavvy.Comic Books page seems to come from people miscategorizing Seen It All as Genre Savvy. Given the medium, there's also a lot of examples No Fourth Wall that should be checked. Folders detailing changes are below.
- As a result of his numerous adventures and encountering just about every being in the Marvel universe (and then some), Spider-Man is teeming with Genre Savvy. At times, he sarcastically expresses boredom at how redundant and predictable his life can be.
- Spider-Man routinely teams up with Wolverine. During their section of the latest Marvel Team-Up series, Peter makes a quip about the fact that they start brawling every time they meet. Every time. Even though they have teamed up many times and know each other socially. And they were most likely teammates on The Avengers at the time. This may stem from their rather rocky relationship with one another, made clear in their first encounter, or from Wolverine's habit of hitting on Mary Jane, but still…
Vance Astro: "Nikki" who?
Peter Parker: Oh wait, I know this one too. You're the Guardians before Nikki joined the team, right? You haven't even won your war in the future yet, right? Earth's still in danger? So you're looking for a way to... let's see... no, not clone, don't even say the word "clone"... No, you want to mutate and empower the people of Earth so that they can defend themselves against some alien invaders, right? An' that's why you're here.
(cue Vance and StarHawk's totally shocked faces)
Peter Parker: (absolutely nonchalantly) Really, it's not that hard... when you're doing this as long as I have, it's kind of difficult to be surprised by a twist like that anymore.
- He does this again later when he sees his daughter, who is a Venom host, attacked by Spider-Girl and is approached by a bunch of people from alternate dimensions. He figures that this is a typical misunderstanding fight and once the girls realize what's going on they'll start hugging each other, crying and talking how they always wanted to have a sister and he will have to live with both of them from now on.
- The new Star Trek comic book series, which picks up the adventures of the crew right after the last episode of the original series, has the characters showing they've gained some Genre Savvy.
- After being stunned and thrown in a cell, McCoy is surprised to see Kirk pull a small phaser out of his boot and blast the door. McCoy asks when he started carrying a hidden weapon. "You get knocked out and thrown into a cell enough, you start to take precautions."
- After returning to the ship at the end of another issue, Kirk asks Spock how he knew to adjust the shields in anticipation of an attack. Spock replies by giving the percentage of times the ship has been attacked after losing communications with Kirk.
- The DCU's Infectious Lass in "Architecture & Mortality". For example: "That's what we learned in the future about team-ups. First you fight..."
- There was a Justice League storyline where they were investigating a series of unlikely events, and as usual the JLA were scattered across the world dealing with different problems. This exchange happens:
- The Amory Wars/Coheed and Cambria storyline's villain, the Trimage Wilhelm Ryan, sort of does this when addressing his robotic general, Mayo Deftinwulf:
- Used in Uncanny X-Men # 254 when an alien fleet is about to attack Earth in a parody of DC Comics' Invasion. Then a nameless researcher turns up the fact that Earth has fought off Skrulls and Badoon, repelled attacks from Galactus multiple times, is the home to Galactus's herald and the Phoenix, etc. His conclusion: "We're doomed!" They are.
- Happened again in S.W.O.R.D. - Abigail Brand avoids alien invasion by pointing out to aliens how many powerful individuals live on Earth, starting with Beta Ray Bill, who recently had beaten Galactus, and how many alien invasions they repelled. Aliens do the right thing and go back home.
- Happened as a Funny Background Event in another comic when the invading force heads to Earth, someone realizes where they're headed, the fleet immediately decides to go anywhere else.
- Similarly, in one Blue Beetle story, a group of would-be invaders are talking to each other about the beings on Earth. When one reports that the Earth houses not only two Kryptonians, but also multiple Green Lanterns, one turns to the other and goes, "Maybe we should rethink this invasion thing."
- In JLA: Year One this was actually the main cause of the alien invasion; when an alien warlord sent his greatest warriors to a 'distant mudball' for a battle to decide the new ruler, they were defeated by local superheroes before the fighting even began. He decided that Earthlings were too great a potential threat to remain alive.
- An Incredible Hulk example: Bruce Banner, having been permanently stopped from turning into the Hulk — and having had his condition confirmed by several of the finest scientific minds in the Marvel Universe — starts planning for the Hulk's return. As Banner himself says, "the Hulk always returns".
- Hulk himself demonstrates a decent amount of savvy in the Planet Hulk storyline, first when the rebels try to recruit him;
- In Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men, Kitty Pryde confronts Colossus;
- Scrooge McDuck has outwitted several plots against him because Paper Thin Disguises don't fool him, he knows something's wrong when everything goes too smoothly, and he remembers when Donald Duck tried similar schemes before.
- Volt, from Mark Waid's Irredeemable, is well aware that as an electric black superhero he is basically cannon fodder. He turns out to be right.
- Being Genre Savvy is the main motivation behind Max Damage's Heel–Face Turn - he is well aware that with Plutonian, the Earth's strongest champion, turning into a mass murderer, and the average threats a typical superhero universe has to face every week, without a new protector humanity is doomed. He is also aware he has no idea how to be a superhero so he gathers several people to serve him as moral guides.
- Plutonian himself proves to be Genre Savvy when his former enemies want to join him. He gives each one of them a button and says that pressing it will render him completely powerless and vulnerable to any attack. They all press it before he even can finish the sentence. He then informs them that they just triggered the auto-destruction mechanism of the facility they're in.
- The US Government seems to have acquired some Genre Savvy in the Superman books of the last few years, establishing a high-tech military unit specifically trained and equipped to take down Superman. Out of paranoia, or fear that he'll try to conquer the world? Nope. Out of recognition that he gets mind-controlled by villains about twice a month. Superman, being Superman, agrees that this unit is a good idea.
- Same reason he gave Batman a kryptonite ring (not that Batman needed it, he just added it to his secret stockpile)
- In Omaha the Cat Dancer everything is ready for the big party, but the guests don't start arriving until Omaha and Shelley realize they have forgotten to do "the secret chant". It goes "It's going to be a disaster. Nobody's going to come." As soon as they finish, the doorbell rings.
- In the Batman comic A Death in the Family, after Batman chases the Joker onto a helicopter, shoots up said helicopter in the ensuing fight, then jumps out into the Gotham river, the helicopter crashes and explodes magnificently with the Joker still in it. However, when Superman swoops down to rescue Batman, Batman just frantically yells at Superman to find the Joker's body, knowing that such a death means that the Joker is probably still alive. Obviously, he's right.
- Superman lays a hilarious smackdown on the Ultramarines for engaging in a fight using deadly, efficient, well-planned, logical tactics; because they get their asses almost killed due their lack of savviness about how the DCU's earth works and forces the Justice League to bail them out with standard ridiculous Crazy Awesome comic book heroics.
- Superman being Genre Savvy might also provide some Fridge Brilliance to the Clark Kenting trope: in comics, unlike real life, Opaque Nerd Glasses have blank white Opaque Lenses that actually do * In War Machine's series, called Iron Man 2.0, James Rhodes is hired to find out how a scientist was able to smuggle his invention out of a secure facility and supply them to terrorists after he committed suicide, especially when he was kept in isolation without any outside phone or internet access during his contract. Both Rhodes and the security team he's working with display a frightening amount of genre savvy, almost to the point of Lampshade Hanging the Fantasy Kitchen Sink aspect of the Marvel Universe. Observe the following (paraphrased) conversation:
- In the Night Raven series, the police led by Detective Nolan set about trying to determine Night Raven's identity, and went through various files trying to find suspects based on people who had reason to have a grudge against criminals. note
- Thorgal at one point becomes quite genre savvy - one problem after another keeps threatening his family and he decides that his Weirdness Magnet status is too dangerous for his family, so he leaves them until he'll find a way to undo it. It backfires horribly. Later he tries to find new, safe place for his family to live on the south, but after three adventures he realizes that all kinds of mystical crazyness, remants of advanced cultures and plain old cruelty are everywhere, so they can as well just return to their home village. There is also his initial dislike of greedy and power craving people - he had seen too many of them become tyrants and dying horribly to not know how this will end.
- In Death of the Family,
- Damian is smart enough to realize that Joker is very good at turning people's words into weapons to use against them. So he declares, "I have nothing to say that would help you manipulate me, clown." Unfortunately, it caused Joker to go into a rant about the term "clown", but at least Damian tried to be careful.
- Joker himself in this story is genre savvy enough to know most common reasons given by both Batman and his fans as an explanation to why Bruce refuses to kill him, and then tear them apart. He also gets a neat little speech debunking Two-Face's "the coin landed right-side up, so he lets them live" trope, and he's ultimately Dangerously Genre-Savvy enough to manipulate everyone to the point that he's able to break the Bat-Family apart at the end of the story, thus accomplishing his goal.
- It's worth mentioning Batman's new reason for not killing the Joker: he honestly believes that Gotham would just bring the Joker back again, or someone worse'd show up.
- Iznogoud: Wa'at Alaaf, Iznogoud's henchman, has long since realised that Iznogoud will be Hoist by His Own Petard. One story has him going on a quest for an unknown item as soon as Iznogoud devises a plan for turning the Caliph into a statue; the item is revealed at the end to be a commemorative plaque in Iznogoud's memory, that Wa'at applies under the statue his master has become.
- In Uncanny X-Men and All-New X-Men, Maria Hill would really like the X Men to stop messing with time by going back and forward, by coming back and forward, and bringing others back and forward, because she knows that it keeps causing even more problems.
- In the Marvel Comics 2 universe, Genre Savvy is yet another skill Peter passes on to his daughter May. Much of the witty banter that goes down during her fights consist of describing the comic book tropes they're supposed to be following.
- In an issue of Marvel Adventures, at the end of a Let's You and Him Fight Spidey says, "It was a textbook superhero misunderstanding battle. Happens all the time! Luckily, this is the part where we make up for it by working together to stop her."
- This actually happens a lot. Nocturne in Exiles refers to that as an "unwritten rule of superhero team ups" and Robbie from Nova is disappointed that Darkhawk and his brother didn't do this.
- Played for Drama when Red Hulk goes up against Ikaris of the Eternals. The prevalence of Let's You and Him Fight is a factor in confirming Ikaris' worst opinions of the Marvel Universe's heroes.
- Zombies Calling by Faith Erin Hicks is built around the main character being savvy to the "rules" of zombie movies.
- In Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' Watchmen, Adrian Veidt, aka Ozymandias, declares that he is not a villain from a Republic Films serial and therefore had already completed his plan 35 minutes before beginning his Breaking Speech.
- Also, referring to his first meeting with the Comedian (where they fought before realizing they were on the same team), Adrian comments on how common a misunderstanding this is in their chosen profession. This is a reference particularly to Marvel heroes, who will ALWAYS battle EACH OTHER upon first meeting.
- In The Sandman, Morpheus is possibly one of the most genre savvy entities in the whole universe. As the Prince of Stories, he knows that life literally imitates art (and vice versa) and is more than capable of controlling it. While teaming up with John Constantine to enter a house haunted by renegade dreams, Constantine shows some genre savviness himself, recalling what happens to people in horror movies when they split up. He asks Morpheus for reassurance that they'll stick together.
- In Avengers: The Initiative issue 21, Gorilla Girl and Batwing have the following conversation:
Gorilla Girl: Home. I asked them to put me in the reserves, and they did.
Batwing: But you did such a good job against the Skrulls!
Gorilla Girl: Yeah, Batwing... and I came out alive, which is practically a miracle. I turn into a gorilla, I'm black, I'm female, and nobody's ever heard of me. I might as well have "Cannon Fodder" stamped on my forehead. You can keep pushing your luck if you want, but I'm getting out while I'm still in one piece. Vaya con dios, kids.
- Later in the issue, she completely ignores her own advice, not due to any Idiot Ball interaction, but because it's the right thing to do, earning her a Crowning Moment Of Awesome.
- In Uncanny X-Men # 143, Kitty Pryde declares: "If this was a movie, the monster would be waiting right outside the door, ready to bite my head off the moment I show myself."
- In Return To Wonderland, Calie is nearly raped by The Mad Hatter, but she gets the upper hand and knocks him out. She declares that she will not repeat the mistake that girls usually make in horror movies (knocking out the bad guy, then leaving the room), and continues the beatdown on Hatter until pretty much all of his bones are broken. It doesn't stop him from coming back. The inhabitants of Wonderland are eternal and eventually reappear every time they die, but Calie didn't know that.
- In Ultimate Spider Man, Bolivar Trask demonstrates this when he asks if the stasis field in the lab he's in can contain Venom. When he's told that it can, he says that he's seen King Kong, and so will be leaving.
- Ambush Bug is not only extremely Genre Savvy, he also loves breaking down the Fourth Wall, and the Fifth, Sixth and Seventh Walls, just in case.
- Likewise, Deadpool displays a similar amount of Genre Savvy, though for a different reason — because of the inoperable brain tumor that ultimately, through Super Science, led to his healing factor, he also has No Fourth Wall.
- Actually Deadpool's Genre Savvy is slightly different in that he is actually completely and totally aware of the fact that he is a comic book character. He can see and even respond directly to the the Narrator's and his own Speech/Thought bubbles. Unlike She-Hulk, Wade doesn't particularly hide this ability and as result, most "normal" denizens of the Marvel Universe simply think he's insane.
- And then there's Rick Jones, whose genre-savviness is given a name: "Comics Awareness" (as opposed to buddy Captain Marvel's "cosmic awareness".) Take, for example, the time he was trapped alongside Bruce and Betty Banner in a Skrull warship. The ship starts to crash, and Rick gives Bruce and Betty the only parachute they can find... because Rick always carries an emergency chute around with him just in case he needs to leap to safety from a crashing Skrull warship. NO, REALLY! THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!
- In Marvel's The Incredible Hercules series, Hercules is aware that as a figure of myth, he is trapped in endlessly repeating patterns that he cannot escape from, as they are a part of his essential being. Of course, he also routinely has flashbacks to assorted contradictory incidents, which he accepts with equanimity, as these are also part and parcel of being 'mythic'. This would mildly backfire at one point, when Hercules was presented with a situation of comparing his recent partners to companions in the past, such as individual Argonauts. When he comes to who Amadeus Cho is like... "No idea."
- This is partially because Cho is Athena's attempt to replace Hercules and thus naturally doesn't fit into the patterns he's used to.
- This later came up when he gave a thumbs up to Amadeus for "scoring" with the Amazonian princess, unaware that Amadeus had found out that the (main) reason for her interest was due to her believing him to be being Hercules' eromenos... and Amadeus was all too aware of what that term meant.
- Cho himself has gained some Genre Savviness, after reading a book by Athena called The Hero's Journey.
- Guardian from the Alpha Flight run by The Incredible Hercules writing duo shows similar traits. Upon being attacked by his wife and teammate, Vindicator, the first explanations that come to his mind are brainwashing, alien impostor and robot duplicate.
- In the final two issues of Alias, the Purple Man actually scripts the comic as he speaks and makes references to main character Jessica Jones having to please her fanbase.
- While Brazilian comic Monica's Gang is rife with No Fourth Wall, Cascao/Smudge deserves mention: he knows Cebolinha/Jimmy Five's "infallible plans" against Monica won't work. Yet he's always convinced to help him. [[
- In an early Post Crisis comic, Mr. Mxyzptlk traps Superman in a Saturday Morning Cartoon world. Superman has little trouble with most of his tormentors — after "Frankie Fieldstone" hits him with a club, Superman just picks him up and drops him into a tar pit. But Supes meets his match when attacked by the flying, caped "Marvy Mouse", who's faster and stronger than he is. In a sudden attack of Genre Savvy, Superman reaches into his cape pouch and, to Marvy Mouse's horror, pulls out Streaky the Super-Cat!
- In GREEN ARROW #129, the Russian mob boss kills his own subordinate Sharaf just as he's about to shoot Connor Hawke, because he knows that an ordinary mob boss like him would not be allowed to enjoy such a 'victory' for long:
Boss: Then you lose, Sharaf. You bring worse than the law to my door. You lead an American superhero to me, with questions about you and threats to me.
Sharaf: But I have him here, pakhan!note He will trouble us no more!
Boss: These masked men have friends. Friends that move planets, and fly like gods. Kill him and I next will have Superman pulling me from my car. As the Americans say, "Adios, mi amigo". —>Don't know if this is Wrong Genre Savvy or not
edited 3rd Mar '15 11:27:09 AM by ObsidianFire
Now that I'm thinking about it, those that are in the "cut" do follow The Universal Genre Savvy Guide...
MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWWIf this thread's purely about the cleanup now, I suggest we move it to the Short-term projects thread. After all, the Trope Repair Shop's supposed to be about discussions relating to deciding how to fix problematic tropes, not to log our cleanup efforts.
If we were still under the old system of the existence of a cap to the amount of threads open, this thread would simply take space meant for other threads.
edited 4th Mar '15 1:10:10 AM by KarjamP
x6
Ok lets see, That Gundam Build Fighters entry is more Awesomeness by Analysis from the various country champions.
However hows this?
- Gundam Build Fighters
- Most of the cast are hardcore fans of the Gundam franchise and tend to apply them to their everyday lives with varying results. Yuuki uses his Genre Savvyness to outstanding effect, knowing he is the Char Clone of the series he manipulates his position as Meijin Kawaguchi to achieve his goals and inspire his rivals.
- Gundam Build Fighters Try
- The Genre Savvy aspect is mostly abandoned as the series moves to be pure Super Robot Genre, only Yuuki seems to retain this and still manipulates the tournament contestants but this time in a stereotypical Super Robot way.
- Late in the series Minato Sakai decides to be extremely (Dangerously?) Genre Savvy by building an actual Super Robot to face those just using Super Robot tropes but still using Real Robot mechs, even Yuuki is shocked at this level of Genre Savvyness.
- The Genre Savvy aspect is mostly abandoned as the series moves to be pure Super Robot Genre, only Yuuki seems to retain this and still manipulates the tournament contestants but this time in a stereotypical Super Robot way.
The others umm I dont have time to do too many lets see
- Haruhi Suzumiya:
- The title character sees everything in terms of TV and anime tropes, even where they might not otherwise have been. She constantly borders between being Wrong Genre Savvy and being an accurate Genre Savvy. Since she is an all-powerful Reality Warper with unstoppable willpower, she will make events become accurate but with bad side effects. Koizomi actively tries to predict these Genre Savvy predictions and make sure they happen without Haruhi unconsciously uses powers to change the world.
- Kyon is a pretty accurate Genre Savvy Meta Guy, however it takes a lot for him to actively use these Genre Savvy skills instead usually just expresses it with snarky remarks.
- The title character sees everything in terms of TV and anime tropes, even where they might not otherwise have been. She constantly borders between being Wrong Genre Savvy and being an accurate Genre Savvy. Since she is an all-powerful Reality Warper with unstoppable willpower, she will make events become accurate but with bad side effects. Koizomi actively tries to predict these Genre Savvy predictions and make sure they happen without Haruhi unconsciously uses powers to change the world.
EDIT: Many of the unsure examples would probably better fit Meta Guy I believe.
edited 4th Mar '15 8:17:25 PM by Memers
Kyon is Genre Savvy. He shows it off once in a while, but I don't remember any specific occasion.
Haruhi is mostly just Wrong Genre Savvy, and when she's right it's mostly by chance or because things happen that way after she's decided that's how they're likely to happen. I think she does display some amount of genuine Genre Savviness on occasion, though, like during the island mystery.
Chisame, another Meta Guy (or girl), is rather similar to Kyon in that regard. Doesn't usually do more than snark about it (probably also for a similar reason), but on occasion follows through.
Check out my fanfiction!
Crown Description:
This is an advisory crowner to determine whether further discussion is necessary Does the inclusion of the following paragraph in the current definition of "Genre Savvy" make the trope too broad?

Umm you can not be Genre Savvy about real life.. So yeah chop chop.
I could see at most genre based Conversational Troping like 'oh this is like a romance novel, next they kiss.' Which would go somewhere else.