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While I enjoy all types of geeky fictional media whether they be tv shows, video games, books, or movies, I've only just started reading comic books. I've mostly been catching up on big event volumes that most people seem to agree to be some of the best (Kingdom Come being the first one I read). And I've been recently reading the Spider-verse and it's side stories (I was going to wait for it finish before picking up the entire thing, but I'm one of those guys that grew-up with the 90's Spider-man cartoon, so impatience won). So far I'm really licking it. The writing is solid, the characters are interesting, and it's just fun read.
But occasionally I see someone call Dan Slott a bad writer, or complain about him in someway. I tried to Google him to see if had written a really horrible story in the past that people still didn't forgive, or if he had said something to piss of fans in a Q&A, or something. Haven't found a thing. . . So why do some people seem to hate Dan Slott so much?
edited 9th Jan '15 5:36:41 PM by JVF147
If you do like that unending pointless parade of gratuitous death and Villain Sues, I guess there's no chance you'll ever get why someone might dislike what Slott has become. It's like someone liking Ultimatum; that person will never understand why Jeph Loeb might ever have degenerated.
Personally, I liked his writing when he was in Ren and Stimpy and then The Batman Adventures.
edited 9th Jan '15 5:40:14 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
The Spider-Verse isn't by any means perfect, but it's pretty enjoyable. I'm not sure why you would compare it to Ultimatum. I mean even if you don't like the Spider-Verse that is a bit much. So what other stories/events has he written that bad?
I like Dan Slott. His She-Hulk run was dynamite. His Spider-man run is fine too, just this latest storyline, not so much. It's certainly one of his weaker works.
edited 9th Jan '15 5:48:28 PM by SilentlyHonest
I'd argue, if you enjoy something, why would you fish around for reasons to dislike that? Life's too scarce on enjoyable things to begin with to do that. If you enjoy it, good for you, go for it and don't mind what the others think. Unless you're just baiting, which I sincerely hope isn't the case.
Most of the hate seems to have started with Superior Spider-Man. The idea of killing Peter Parker and having his body inhabited by a guy who tried to kill most of humanity was certainly a controversial one. The story as a whole was much darker in tone than is usual from Slott, and darker than usual for Spider-Man. And, of course, it was largely dependent on absolutely no one being able to figure out that, hey, Spider-Man has never behaved like this, so there's obviously something really big going on that should be looked into. So Superior did have some problems as a story.
Then Amazing Spider-Man was relaunched, and has just been really clumsily done, leading up to Spider-Verse, another unusually dark story, and worse, one that has a huge body count, including some relatively loved versions of characters (the Amazing Spider-Friends, in particular). It's a little too much a dark'n'gritty story (and also has some additional flaws).
Also, Dan Slott can be kind of an asshole online. And that always causes problems. He has a history of behaving poorly on social media, getting into stupid arguments, being really defensive and insulting, and just generally being an asshole. So that just makes people hate him even more. When someone criticizes his work, Slott's likely to fight back, and that just makes the people who dislike his work like him even less. Compare it to someone like Bendis, who's generally a really nice guy who doesn't take criticism personally and doesn't go after people online, and even with people who hate his work, you won't normally get anyone who attacks him as a person, and when someone does insult him personally, they're the ones who look like assholes.
Didn't he write the Spiderman/Powdered Toastman crossover?
Yes. I think it was his first time writing Spider-Man, actually.
@Napoleon De Cheese: Like I've said i like all types of geeky stuff and as such I've come across those weird discussions where it looks like ti's just a bunch of zealotes arguing back and forth than a real argument (for example much of the "console war", "AMD vs Intel/Nvidia", and "Marvel vs DC"). I also know that sometimes creators can assholes online, or they can make a creative mistake that fans find hard to forgive.
I was curious about the people who would occasionally seemly come out of nowhere and drop a mention about how Slott is a horrible writer (that being their only contribution to the forums). I wasn't baiting anyone in the sense that I was trolling, or just trying justify liking the stuff I like. I just wanted to find out what was these people's beef with this guy.
@Tiamatty9th: Ok, well that explains a lot, thanks. I get that sometimes his writing just kind of seems lazy (Silk overhearing Spiderwoman about how irresponsible she is, and running away in a tantrum only to find the one universe the Inheritors can't chase after them.)
Consept wise the Superior story line seems really interesting, but come on. Really? No one figured there was something strange? Like I could see Jameson being all "see I told you all he was evil", and maybe Aunt May just being worried about Peter, but not really suspecting body snatching. But Ironman? Captain America? Spiderwoman? I mean they shouldn't had automatically assumed body swapping, but I'm pretty sure they had to deal with brainwashing, mind control, and shape-shifting impostors before.
That may be a problem with Slott as a whole, he's great conceptually. He has good ideas, actually I'll say he has some of the best ideas at marvel currently, but his execution of these ideas is lacking. Judging from behaviors and reactions he has online, he might be a guy who got big and thinks he's Amazing, Superior even, but he's actually a guy who believed his own hype, and isn't open to getting any negative feedback because of it.
Characters commented on how weird Spider-Man was acting. And I suppose, in defence of the Avengers, they did call him in to do a brainscan. Of course, it was pretty much all of the least technically-inclined Avengers there. So, the ones who would be least likely to notice anything odd in the readings. And most characters were still just asking "What the hell is wrong with Spider-Man?"
Yeah, it was a bit silly.
Initially, Slott usually only got into fights with fans when he was provoked, most commonly by people badgering him to undo OMD. I know this because I was one of those people. He seems to be doing the provoking himself these days, unfortunately.
edited 9th Jan '15 10:53:22 PM by HamburgerTime
A big factor of it as well, is that Slott doesn't behave himself all that well online and quite happily winds up gullible idiots.
I agree. I think people would be giving him more leeway if he hadn't taken a level in jerkass recently. In particular, treating Rape By Fraud as a joke is not something that is a good thing.
A writer's interactions with fans can definitely affect their popularity. To use another recent example, Remender lost a ton of fans when he told a critic to drown himself in hobo piss. Though to be fair he owned up and apologized, which is more than Slott has done.
edited 10th Jan '15 5:45:22 PM by HamburgerTime
Slott can be a bit of a G.I.F.T. when he get into arguments online.
Slott has problems with "sticking the landing" on his more elaborate concepts.
Superior's problems included a planet-wide Idiot Ball necessary for the story to work (19 goddamn issues for someone to finally figure that "Peter" wasn't himself) and an unsatisfying conclusion that had a bit of a re-tread of Spider-Island (using robots to deliver an antidote), an implausible escape by Norman Osborn, zero confrontation between Peter and Otto (Ock just gives him back his body. We had to wait until Spider-Verse for Peter to deck the smug prick), and a really.... irritating.... moment with MJ.
The relaunch of ASM (and Spider-Verse by extension) has the idiocy of Black Cat's turn to being a crime boss, Silk (though this might be because of Nick Lowe), wasted story potential with the alternate Spider-folk by killing them, and Spider-Girl's family getting axed for cheap pathos.
Slott's strength, currently, seems to be as the set-up guy for the spin-off series: Agent Venom, Scarlet Spider, Superior Team-Up, (grumble) Silk, and the renewed interest for 2099.
edited 11th Jan '15 1:04:06 AM by ScarletCajun
I like a lot of Slott's early work, and I also kind of dug "Learning to Crawl" last year, I also quite enjoy his Silver Surfer run, but as plenty have said already, he's good at concepts and set-up, but he's shown clear signs of creative struggle. He's also terrible at writing female characters, and has done considerable damage to the likes of MJ, Felicia, and even Mayday, Silk has potential with her spin-off book once she's out of Slott's hands, but her build-up has been atrociously handled under his pen to the point people are confidant interest in her book will be close to zero (though according to Slott, fan demand is responsible for her spin-off, which I personally have doubts of)
The man is a public relations disaster, picking fights with everyone and boasting of his sales success (forgetting that far worse things in the entertainment medium are just as popular) and almost always threatens to leave the internet but comes crawling back whenever he reads a parody comic by RD Ma Q or skims Douglas Ernst's blogs on his writing.
His writing almost made me swear off Spider-Man completely. The only reason I remain a fan is because of the daily comic strip. Corny as that is, it's a load of fun and I still recognize Peter, MJ, and everyone involved in it there.
His Silver Surfer is fantastic, but it's with Mike Allred, so of course it is. Slott does seem to prefer fun books to dark ones. His Great Lakes Avengers, his Mighty Avengers, his Amazing Spider-Man prior to Superior - it was all fun, and all really good.
The idea that fan demand is responsible for Silk getting a book strikes me as complete and total bullshit. What demand? She'd barely even shown up before the book was announced, which means it was actually being planned before she showed up.
Slott's argument about the book's high sales actually kinda require lying. See, what he says is, "Amazing Spider-Man sold 100 000 copies this month!" What he doesn't add is that the book double-shipped, and each issue only sold 50 000 copies, which, while not terrible numbers, are pretty low for Spider-Man, arguably Marvel's biggest character. Realistically, the book actually should be higher. I don't really hold Slott to blame for the disappointing numbers. The book saw a major drop in the months following One More Day, and it's just never really recovered.
I think Slott's run has been mostly really good. Really, it's only since the relaunch of Amazing that I've felt it's gotten bad. I hope Slott finishes his run soon. And I'd love it if Kelly Sue Deconnick took over the book. She won't, of course. But it's nice to dream, right?
Fair dues if you think Slott's had more hits than misses, but as far as I'm concerned, Superior was a massive betrayal of several characters and was a worse story than OMD
Slott himself confirmed he has plots set up that will run well into 2016, so we'll see if he can turn things around. He's bound to set tumblr alight with how he approaches the Renew Your Vows story, I'm very much anticipating the car wreck
edited 11th Jan '15 1:25:33 PM by Zarius
As someone who already swore of Spider-books. It is equally confusing to me. I mean, so you stuck around for the Mephisto mess once, but they very announcement of One Moment In Time really makes me wonder why read at all. The writers, the pencil people, the color people, the ink doers, they all hate you. Normally when a company beats a dead horse its because that horse made a lot of money or at least generated positive feedback while living. When they "milk" something like One More Day, it means
A): They are sadly mistaken about just how much their fans hated the event.
B): They are giving a direct insult to the people who complained about their "masterpiece" because they know they'll keep buying whatever crap they put out.
Consider the Ultimate Marvel version of the clone saga, which set out to correct everything that went wrong with the 90s story everyone bitched about. That's a company admitting it messed up, or at least trying to get back in its fan's good graces. That's what Marvel hasn't been for as long as I can remember.
I was willing to go back to the spider-books actually, after I got wind Peter Parker finally died. I figured a new, better, or at least totally different spider-man might was the bad taste out of my mouth, but it was just a publicity stunt that was over almost as soon as it begun (kind of like the opposite of the 1990s clone saga, which simply wouldn't go away)
Still, I got to ask, Spider-girl as in Anya Corazon? I never liked the idea of her being "Spider-girl" to begin with and figured she should continue to move in directions away from Spider-man the way Morbius, Cloak&Dagger and Punisher did, if she had to be used in the first place(Wasn't the failed spinoff everyone wanted a second shot for called Toxin? Beaten to death by Blackheart off panel? These people hate their fans).
Not only was Anya's dead mother the basis of her back story note mom was a super hunter. Anya "inherited" mom's power but got a whole lot that had nothing to do with being a hunter along with them, and wasn't supposed to have any of mom's. Lot's of story potential there actually, but not enough to throw them all out the window for the sake of highlighting Miss Marvel's motherly traits, which are so much more interesting but her dad got poisoned to death and smashed by Red Hulk for good measure. She didn't have any family left to kill, unless Slott penned up a brand new one just for that purpose. If that's true, I could sympathize with the anti Slott movement (and be comfortable in my stance that Marvel completely dropped the ball with Arana and its so called Amazing Fantasy revival)
It was actually Mayday Spider-Girl's family that Slott killed off. The MC 2 Peter and Mary Jane.
Superior had a lot of problems, no argument there. But I thought, overall, it was a fairly interesting story. Unfortunately, Spider-Verse hasn't been interesting enough to make up for the problems.
edited 11th Jan '15 2:38:17 PM by Tiamatty
I agree with you there. The tie-ins for Spider-Verse have been entertaining (hard to go wrong with Peter David making it work on 2099, and Scarlet Spiders is a treat), but the main story seems to be stuck on a loop in terms of developing plotlines. The exact same beats occur. Fight/Flee/Massacre.
Part of me briefly wanted to cheer Mayday on when she channeled her inner Superboy Prime and called all the other Spiders "fakes" given how adolescent Slott's had them been acting, I just find it hard to root for many of them beside her and Benjy.
edited 11th Jan '15 2:43:27 PM by Zarius
I think I can agree that Slott may have issues writing women. Even some of his fans think he's killed off too many female characters, I know. Though where his excellent She-Hulk fits in there I couldn't tell you.
And I highly doubt Marvel "hates" their fans. Always found that argument silly.
edited 11th Jan '15 3:53:28 PM by HamburgerTime
Well, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it just hates that its fans wanted a good Toxin story after his promising debut, and went out of their way to anger those people? Maybe it just hates the people who liked Spider-man married, or were just annoyed at how poorly conceived One More Day was, or that the old timeline still had potential for interesting events before they flushed it down the toilet so they sought to mock those people with a special release?
If you think its a silly argument, why do you think Marvel likes insulting people who buy its spider-books? Even in the case of Superior, an idea I at least liked, they felt the need to troll people who were reading and critiquing the book online rather than say, chat it up with the people who liked it, admit where the critics might be right, thank them for their overpriced purchase since the USA comic market kind of sucks and the economy hadn't exactly recovered, rather than blabbing about how much money it made.
Maybe it's not hate, but some similar emotion born of aversion and or repulsion. At least during his She-Hulk days, the writer stand in was just as fat and unattractive as the straw fans.
That's the thing. I don't think Marvel goes "out of its way" to do that. Remender likely killed off Toxin because he thought nobody remembered him. Or take Avengers Arena, for instance. A book that turned off a lot of people and never gained more than a cult following. But everything the writer Dennis Hopeless said about it said nothing to me other than that he was a pleasant man genuinely trying to write a good story, whether or not he succeeded.
Short version, I think you're assuming malice too easily.
edited 11th Jan '15 11:13:12 PM by HamburgerTime
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