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MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#4301: Aug 22nd 2018 at 7:11:45 AM

Also Wikia and mobiles seem to have compatibility problems.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#4302: Aug 22nd 2018 at 8:36:17 AM

A lot of people abandoned Yu-Gi-Oh Wikia and moved on to the forked site Yugipedia. It had actually been in discussion 5 and a half years ago but they were against it then. http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Proposal_to_Fork_to_Yugipedia

The word Wikia in UR Ls will officially change to Fandom starting in 2019, so who knows what'll happen from there. (I feel bad for stuff like diabetes.wikia.com...)

The Protomen enhanced my life.
AegisP Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#4303: Aug 22nd 2018 at 9:00:16 AM

Why would someone make a wikia site for diabetes? Why not a more serious website?

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#4304: Aug 22nd 2018 at 2:42:47 PM

Going by the comments, some wikias on factual information, diseases, etc. are made to be like an encyclopedia and resource information hub for those kinds of things.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Krika Since: Dec, 2010
#4305: Aug 22nd 2018 at 7:13:58 PM

Also, it's very easy to get a Wikia off the ground, so it's a low-effort way to get a wiki.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
Formerly G.G.
#4306: Aug 23rd 2018 at 10:44:09 AM

I used to have an account on a wiki and The Other Wiki, it might be gone now.

"I am going down a DOWNWARD SPIRAL!!"
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#4307: Aug 23rd 2018 at 2:33:20 PM

Speaking as a YGO Wiki member, the reason the fork was done was because people were getting fed up with being bombarded by FANDOM ads.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#4308: Aug 23rd 2018 at 4:31:42 PM

No one likes those, so I understand.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
Formerly G.G.
#4309: Aug 25th 2018 at 1:49:42 AM

Indeed. The ads can be annoying but so are most ads.

"I am going down a DOWNWARD SPIRAL!!"
Nickpws Since: Dec, 2014
#4310: Aug 25th 2018 at 7:34:28 AM

Not the whole story. Wikia also had problems supporting mobile format and those horrible wikia staff-added videos stinking up pages didn't help any.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#4311: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:04:26 PM

So, if you could mess around with/update the decks of players across the first few series, how would you do it?

Wake me up at your own risk.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4312: Aug 31st 2018 at 12:36:56 AM

I'd have Joey use a Red Eyes deck with a a Glass Cannon strategy.

While Serenity only dueled once, I'd have given her a warrior toolbox deck.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#4313: Aug 31st 2018 at 3:50:29 PM

Since most YGO characters are in-universe celebrities it's kinda funny to think about how many fans they'd have. I bet Yami Bakura has tons of fans from his duel in Battle City and he hates it XD

Edited by lalalei2001 on Aug 31st 2018 at 6:51:50 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#4314: Sep 7th 2018 at 3:48:05 PM

Say, can anyone answer me this? Is it explicitly stated that Yubel is a hermaphrodite in the Japanese version, or is that just fanon? I've seen this claimed many places, but never in a primary source, and since there's so many unsubstantiated rumors about YGO's production, international differences, and so on (X character dies in Y version! 5D's production troubles were caused by Z!), I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
Formerly G.G.
#4315: Sep 7th 2018 at 6:20:52 PM

I see Yubel as being both genders which make sense when you consider the Yin/Yang theme they have going for her.

"I am going down a DOWNWARD SPIRAL!!"
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#4316: Sep 7th 2018 at 7:02:13 PM

The 4kids dub seemingly made her transgender, having a male voice actor as a human and a female one as a monster. I doubt they put that much thought into it, though.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#4317: Sep 7th 2018 at 9:29:52 PM

Yubel also had a voice of a man and woman in the Japanese version, though I think the woman's voice was the "main" voice.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#4318: Sep 8th 2018 at 2:39:16 AM

So I was reading the GX YMMV page and it claims Season 3 & 4 are what saved the series in the eyes of fans. Obviously YMMV but does anybody here feel this way? If so, why?

Season 3 to me was tryhard grimderp, a slap in the face to the amazing second season. Characterization was inconsistent(Zane), Jaden got a depressing and fucked up backstory for no reason, and it just completely missed the point that the series exists to mock this kind of melodrama. The fate of the world depending on a card game is silly and GX took the piss out of the idea for over a hundred episodes.

Then Season 3 comes along and tries to make me hate Jaden FOR DOING THE EXACT SAME THING THAT MADE HIM A GREAT HERO!

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4319: Sep 8th 2018 at 3:45:19 AM

If you liked the show as it was in seasons 1 and 2, you'd likely hate 3 and 4. If you hated the first two seasons, then 3 and 4 were likely good character development for Jaden.

I didn't really hate Jaden but I don't think he was particularly interesting.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#4320: Sep 8th 2018 at 4:49:28 AM

According to Duel Art, since YGO was a bit dark, Takahashi decided GX would be brighter, as Jaden doesn’t have a dark side, is cheerful, hot-blooded, and easy to read. Takahashi also felt that GX’s cheeriness meant the protagonists couldn’t grow as much and would be unable to defeat someone imposing like Marik, so he wrote in Jaden becoming the Supreme King, but then felt it was almost too dark. But he feels Jaden became a stronger character after that.

I've seen fans who love seasons 3/4 and fans that hate it, for the same reasons, and fans who would've liked it more if Jesse Anderson hadn't been shilled so much.

On a 5Ds note, the Dark Signer arc was partially inspired by a miniseries Takahashi had presented to Shonen Jump that got rejected, where 5 heroes with glyph birthmarks were killed by an ancient enemy, got reincarnated, and only had the glyphs to remind them of their past lives, which they’d gradually remember and join forces to take down the original enemy. The main reason it was rejected was because the sample oneshot ended right as they died.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 8th 2018 at 7:52:27 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
Formerly G.G.
#4321: Sep 8th 2018 at 6:03:56 AM

Jaden was a positive character in general however I really the character development and depth he got in the thrd season. Also, I like ot think GX as being a coming of age story for the characters. Speaking of 5DS, what do you guys make of Crow and his popularity?

Because this has been bugging me for a while. Crossposted from Neo Ark Cradle.

There's a common school of thought in fandom that any person holding the purse strings is guilty until proven otherwise. We've all heard stories, often half-remembered, about executives warping the original vision into its pale shadow, including one of the most frightfully extensive TV Tropes pages around, and there's a tendency to dismiss any failings in the finished product as the result of "meddling". And while this certainly happens, I must say, it's a bit dismissive. Writers are quite capable of bungling works by themselves, thank you very much.

So, stop me if you've heard it: Crow was a character designed to be a villain, probably the final boss, Crow's cards sold well, Konami petitioned to have him become a good guy and a main character instead, and against the writer's wishes, Crow became a main character alongside the heroes and got a Signer mark and a dragon and to be the only character of any importance. We've heard it, we've felt it, and it fits all the facts.

Only it doesn't.

I have heard the story many times, but I've never once heard a source on it. No Twitter links, no translations, no scans. If someone can provide them, that would be nice, but if it is true, then I must say, I've heard far too many variants of it for me to believe it unreservedly. In one variant, Crow is a Team Rocket-esque character, a petty thief repeatedly confronting Yusei and getting beaten every time. In another, he's a Dark Signer, wielding Rasca in the final battle with Yusei and Jack. In yet another, he becomes a Dark Signer but he isn't by any means the "main" one. A further one suggested that he was a good guy, but a considerably more minor one. I can't even set the record straight because I can't find a record to set.

So that's a major hole in the theory already. And I've heard many stories about 5Ds's development and issues that had to be cut, and all of them flow quite well with the discrepancies in the second season. Demak being part of an Earthbound-worshipping cult being cut out makes sense. Bommer originally rematching Rua, as well. But Crow? Crow is introduced as a thief with a cool bike, not an all-consuming archvillain. Rex's status as the final villain, even if it was messily-handled, was foreshadowed all the way down to his shirt. Crow, not so much.

But all this is supposition, lack of knowledge, and hearsay. And you know what isn't those? Dates.

Crow debuted in episode 30 of 5Ds, on October 22, 2008, and in that episode, he was already being characterized as a friend to all children. The first wave of Blackwing support arrived in Crimson Crisis, which released in Japan on November 15, 2008. How can Konami have petitioned for Crow's character to be changed when Blackwings came out three weeks afterward? The only way this could have happened is if they were basing it on advance sales, or an executive taking a shine to this random set of Winged Beasts.

And more to the point, this sort of thing has never happened before or since. There are many, many characters with meta decks that appeared without ceremony and vanished quickly, and just as many characters that stayed prominent when their decks failed to make a splash. In the prior GX, consider Ryo, who, after Cyber Dragons revolutionized beatdown, actually dropped them in favor of Cyberdarks. Consider the Monarch players in GX, who are completely irrelevant to the overall plot. Consider Judai, who kept using Neo-Spacians all the way to the end despite their lack of impact. Move on to the future, and we see much the same thing happening. Rank-Up-Magic stayed important to the end of ZEXAL despite being nonexistent in tournaments. Dennis in ARC-V, despite Performages dominating for a good while, got carded about halfway in, and Sawatari trades out his meta-relevant Yosenju and Mega Monarchs for Abyss Actors. Even in 5Ds itself, Kiryu's Infernities were one of the most dominant decks, but Kiryu himself showed up again for only one short arc, and Plant Synchro was the top deck of the later years - a deck named after cards used by Aki and Ruka!

And to nail this coffin, surely, if Konami had the power to make Crow a protagonist, they would have been able to make the later waves of Blackwings worth using. Konami likes Crow, absolutely; if they didn't, they wouldn't have given him a Duelist Pack or releases in Dragons of Legend, but their love was not what led to his role in the anime.

So the idea that Konami would petition the anime writers to push Crow to the forefront is, to put it kindly, not likely. They've never done it before, and it's extremely unlikely that they could do it at all. They've absolutely had certain cards added in, like Yuri's Ancient Gears or the first two Seven Stars using Structure Decks. But they've never done anything on the level of upgrading a tertiary villain into the tritagonist. So does that mean Crow was always meant to be a main character?

Not in the slightest.

There are simply far, far too many discrepancies to say that Crow was intended to be as he was from the start, and everyone knows it. It's why this explanation is so common. He appears late. He isn't mentioned before then. He's barely in the Dark Signer arc openings and endings - hell, he's outright absent from a shot that included him in the series. When one looks at Takahashi's early Signer designs, Crow is nowhere to be found. His Dark Signer opponent is someone he's never met. His fridge survival feels bizarrely contrived. His becoming a Signer is wholly inconsistent with what came before. And of course, everything to do with Black-Winged Dragon. Even the first four Blackwings look... well, evil; all gnarled and disproportionate and faceless, looking uncannily like the Infernities.

So was Crow intended to be a villain? I think, yes. But when we blame Konami, we're barking up the wrong tree. So who was it, then?

Well, one thing I do know is where Crow's last name comes from. According to a tweet by series director Katsumi Ono, it's a reference to Kuro Hogan, a title of General Yoshitsune. He also mentions that he took great care to make sure that the names of Crow's cards would call to mind Yoshitsune's tactical skill. And though this is apocryphal on my part, I don't believe Crow's surname was revealed for a good while, which would suggest someone came up with it later.

Hm.

As is known well, Crow debuted right after the series switched composers. Much of his first episode, with the monstrous Blackwings, his OTK on the Security officer, his general superiority, and the end with him and Yusei having a staredown, would imply a villain's introduction. Almost as if it were rewritten to add some scenes of Crow being a Friend To All Children. Almost as if, in a time when the series was in flux, someone decided to repurpose an existing script to change a planned villain into a hero. Someone established in the show's management, like the lead director.

Hmm.

Katsumi Ono also directed ARC-V. Were there any Blackwings being sold when Crow showed up? No. A number came out a few months afterward, but at the time, Blackwings were a severely outdated rogue deck that hadn't had new cards aside from a handful of year-old legacy releases, and Synchros were a pretty dry well. But Crow came back anyway. Crow even got to come back from the dead in the battle with Zarc, and got to be the one to get under Zarc's skin. Obviously, there to advertise a set of new Blackwing cards - that didn't exist. The episode came out in January, and the most recent Blackwings had shown up in April of the prior year.

Hmmm.

See, that last note was what motivated me to make this post. Ono's love for Jack is often discussed when people talk about ARC-V. But Jack's appearance in ARC-V, messy as it was, did serve a purpose in the overall plot, and Jack is very popular. If one were returning to 5Ds, Jack is the first thing one would return to. But Crow? Is Crow really popular? Again, hard numbers.

In the recent V-Jump poll to determine the most popular duels in each series, the final results for 5Ds were the last Yusei/Jack, the first Yusei/Aki, Yusei/Z-One, the last Yusei/Bruno, and the second Yusei/Kiryu. Obviously, none involve Crow.

On Pixiv, "クロウ・ホーガン" (Crow Hogan) has 1263 results. "不動遊星" (Yusei Fudo) has 6018, "ジャック・アトラス" (Jack Atlas) has 1985, "十六夜アキ" (Aki Izayoi) has 3029, "鬼柳京介" (Kiryu Kyousuke) has 2286, "龍可" (Ruka) has 1870, and "龍亞" (Rua) has 1627.

On Nico Nico, those same queries give Crow 99 videos. Yusei gets 833, Jack 515, Aki 318, Kiryu 473, Ruka 205, and Rua 185.

Far from being popular, in Japan, anyway, Crow appears to be the least-liked Signer, by a wide margin. So perhaps he could be a tribute to Blackwings? Not impossible - but if it is the deck being given its due, then where are Infernities in ARC-V, which were dominant for far longer? Where are Plants or Synchrons, which were similarly common and remain in use today? What about Six Samurai, which was getting support during ARC-V's run? No. Far from being forced upon ARC-V, Crow was someone they wanted.

Which leads to the question, then: why would the creators of ARC-V want Crow? It would only make sense if he was a character they already liked. A character they were experienced with writing. Perhaps, even, a character they helped create. Such a person would have to have been prominent in the managing of both ARC-V and 5Ds.

A person like Katsumi Ono.

Now, am I saying this is a definitive fact? No. I have very little evidence aside from circumstance, dates, some statistics, supposition, and a tweet. But until I receive very compelling evidence to the contrary, I'm going to say: Konami did not create Crow. Crow is not Konami's pet character. If he's the pet character of anyone, it's one of the show's creators - likely Katsumi Ono. I myself have no idea why Ono would rewrite Crow's character, if it was Ono - but that is the only possibility that seems to fit the facts.

Now, feel free to pick me apart and tell me why I'm wrong.

EDIT: Wow, thanks for the response, guys. I'm incredibly grateful for the praise, and for the critique or counterarguments. In the name of the latter, I'm gonna answer some mentioned points here.

What if the actual point where Konami stepped in was the bit with the fridge? That was after Blackwings showed up.

While the fridge does seem like it was a turning point, Crow was already clearly a good guy by then. Why couldn't the person who turned him from villain to hero also turn him from hero to protagonist?

What if both Konami and Ono were involved?

That's not impossible, but it's not logically sound, either. We already know that Ono likes Crow, and we already have reason to think that someone in development was changing Crow's role for reasons unrelated to the card game. Konami is unnecessary to this equation.

You say that Konami never did this before, but what if they did it now?

What if they did? There's no evidence to suggest they did. There's no pattern of them doing this. They've never shown signs of wanting to do this. What reason do we have to believe they did it now? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this is the very definition of an extraordinary claim.

But Crow was clearly going to be a villain; look at him!

I'm not disputing that.

But Konami makes the cards. The anime just advertises them. Blackwing support in ARC-V had to have been pre-planned, and the anime writers introduced Crow to advertise it.

In that same arc, we have a Goyo Fusion. In the prior arc, we had Gem-Knights totally unrelated to the prior lore and playstyle. Do they seem like something Konami would have made on their own? The anime creates cards of its own volition all the time. Why couldn't they create new Blackwings? And again, this doesn't explain why Crow stayed prominent long after the last waves showed up.

But I remember a scan of a page that said he was a Dark Signer!

Great! Provide it. Because the last person to tell me this said that this page said he was a sympathetic recurring villain. I've provided links that you can check whenever you want; you can do the same.

So are you trying to defend Crow?

My dispute is with how he became what he was, not what he was. Whether you like Crow or not is entirely up to you, and I'd happily argue he was one of the blandest characters in the series. But I'm not dealing with opinions - I'm dealing with facts.

Here is the reddit in question, Crow is a very polarizing character in general but how much Crow's character had changed?

"I am going down a DOWNWARD SPIRAL!!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#4322: Sep 8th 2018 at 7:46:35 AM

[up] Sounds like the "Yugi has diabetes" thing. I've seen that kinda stuff in the Jem fandom too, where people were like 'the creator said x' but they hadn't.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#4323: Sep 8th 2018 at 7:47:28 AM

I have to say I never bought the whole "Rasca-possed Crow was the original final boss" rumor. I mean, if Rasca was going to belong to Crow... why was his glyph on Goodwin's shirt from the latter's first appearance?

Edited by HamburgerTime on Sep 8th 2018 at 9:49:49 AM

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4324: Sep 8th 2018 at 8:31:55 AM

Huh. Well, clearly someone liked Crow.

I didn't know he was unpopular in Japan as well. It's depressing to think there might have been some authorial favouritism that got him in above other characters, especially if there were other characters beyond Jack who might have deserved the spot more (I'd have loved to see Aki, if only for the ultimately hopeless potential of an Aki vs Asuka match...which the latter would have admittedly lost, because he has one of the worst decks in both series she appears in, but still).

I've been ruminating on how both Ono series and the dueling styles they introduced might not be that popular (Zexal seemed to totally ignore 5D's what with referencing Dark Magician, Blue Eyes, and Neos, but nothing of Stardust Dragon), and while VRAINS has had Fusion and Ritual summoning (the first time the latter has been used by a protagonist in a long while), there has been no sign of Synchro and Link Summoning seems to have flat out killed Pendulum summoning, which makes me think they are deliberately downplaying stuff from those two seasons.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#4325: Sep 8th 2018 at 10:34:09 AM

From what I understand the Ono series are unpopular in Japan in general. In fact one reason the later seasons of ARC-V flopped there is because it was felt Ono was wanking the Synchro characters, many of whom he'd partially created, at the expense of the Fusion and Xyz ones.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

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