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AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#3401: Dec 22nd 2015 at 6:57:54 PM

[up]Or use your soldiers to soften up the armour landing [lol]

Inter arma enim silent leges
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#3402: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:03:51 PM

^ You use the enemy soldiers for that one. [lol]

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#3403: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:07:09 PM

Or use your armor to soften up enemy infantry's landing.

Wait...

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#3404: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:14:09 PM

My opinion, soften up the landing area with artillery or airstrikes first. Otherwise, if you drop your vehicles before your troops, some enterprising enemy might steal them and use them against you.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#3405: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:18:09 PM

Like Gundams.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3406: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:21:28 PM

Just booby trap the armored vehicles, and air-drop EOD before the soldiers.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#3407: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:22:44 PM

[up][up]That, I wouldn't know anything about. I don't usually watch Japanese stuff.

edited 22nd Dec '15 7:23:24 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#3408: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:28:22 PM

Unattended or insufficiently attended Humongous Mecha tend to get hijacked. This becomes even more likely if they robot in question is a prototype.

Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#3409: Dec 22nd 2015 at 8:00:06 PM

Once the VDVs converted over to helicopters, I don't know what their doctrine called for in regards with the armored vehicles. Presumably the helis would air-assault the infantry in while Aeroflot dropped their armored vehicles, and the composite units would do the fighting?

Doctrinally the BMD series are not really APCs or IFVs because of their minuscule troop capacity. The BMD offers airborne a chance to employ armored shock tactics they don't normally get against rear-echelon troops who probably lack AT weapons, maybe, if you're lucky and nobody has a .50cal for some reason.

However it's more realistically a glorified transport system for an ATGM launcher and a (fairly hefty, it is a 30mm after all) autocannon to deal with enemy armor. Kind of like if someone had stuck a "must also transport four guys" requirement on the Wiesel AWC for no good reason.

edited 22nd Dec '15 8:01:04 PM by Night

Nous restons ici.
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3410: Dec 22nd 2015 at 8:48:58 PM

Well the good reason is that the four guys don't wanna walk.[lol]

Presumably they'd disembark to provide screening and try to put two or four rounds center-of-mass to any ambitious imperialists with AT-4 launchers. If nothing else, you could load up the passenger space with extra ammo and other supplies.

edited 22nd Dec '15 8:49:25 PM by AFP

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#3411: Dec 23rd 2015 at 4:28:56 AM

try to put two or four rounds center-of-mass to any ambitious imperialists with AT-4 launchers.

Nyet tovarisch. You bury those fuckers in a landslide of bullets until they stop moving. So it might take a mag or two.

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#3412: Dec 23rd 2015 at 5:53:15 AM

To be fair, from what I can glean of FM 100-2-2 (Specialised Warfare and Rear Area Support) it seems that "overwhelming firepower" or "significant protection" were never two of the requirements (and hence it feels somewhat dishonest to try to use something that they were never aiming for as a yardstick). Their main value was their ability to surprise the enemy, improve the chances of deep penetration, and effect a rapid exploitation - all of which calls for rapid manoeuvre.

The use of air droppable AFVs was simply a means of rectifying the perennial airborne problem of a lack of firepower whilst simultaneously maximising rates of advance.

EDIT:

Though off-topic, it is interesting to note the Soviets deemed enemy tanks and aircraft to be the two major threats to airborne units after landing; this may also have had an impact on their decision to deploy air droppable AFVs.

edited 23rd Dec '15 6:07:36 AM by Flanker66

Locking you up on radar since '09
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3413: Dec 23rd 2015 at 9:46:21 AM

Fine fine, two magazines to center of general area lol.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#3414: Dec 23rd 2015 at 6:57:06 PM

And a 40mm caseless at the end just to be sure! [lol]

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#3417: Dec 31st 2015 at 9:32:04 AM

[up]Very long runners indeed.

Inter arma enim silent leges
KnitTie Since: Mar, 2015
#3418: Jan 2nd 2016 at 1:22:56 PM

Nice VDV article, though I'd like to add that those bastards have always been uppity when it came to reforms or cuts, - "Fuck you, we're already good enough!" and so on - so it's more likely the fault of the entire organisation rather than only its leader that the VDV remained mostly unchanged during the reforms.

I wonder if people have any other articles like that, it's interesting to read how the transformation of the Russian military is viewed from the outside, particularly now that Syria's made it clear that they are no longer the stumblebumps they used to be.

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#3419: Jan 2nd 2016 at 2:27:53 PM

re: VDV article: yes, I was pretty happy when I found it, too. smile

My impression of the VDV is that it's pretty comparable to the USMC in institutional terms, a specialist arm with a lot more autonomy than would be necessarily logical because of its prestige. Except, whereas the USMC still falls under the aegis of the US Navy, the VDV is all but independent, and while the USMC loves to complain about getting the castoffsnote  the VDV seems to have a much louder voice when it comes to procurement.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
KnitTie Since: Mar, 2015
#3420: Jan 2nd 2016 at 2:43:18 PM

[up]Throughout the oughties, the VDV had the dubious honour of being the only part of the Russian military that was still viewed by the people in a positive light, so a lot of its modern prestige is actually caused by the rest of our armed forces making it look much better that it really was by comparison. Which is what makes their complaints that the VDV is always getting the best of everything so annoying.

edited 2nd Jan '16 2:45:45 PM by KnitTie

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#3421: Jan 2nd 2016 at 3:13:23 PM

Sabre: I have to briefly counter that up to the F-35B and past decade or so the Marines getting a lot of older equipment was a fact of life. They also occupy a different niche for a good reason. Every time the US has seriously considered doing away with the Marines something pops up and we suddenly need them again as Ampib capable assault troops.

Who watches the watchmen?
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#3422: Jan 2nd 2016 at 10:12:29 PM

An Urban Legend is that after World War Two and in the run up to Korea, the Army chief of staff and a few congress critters toyed with the idea of folding the Marines into the Army. Truman (being National Guard) asked the Commandant about this in a meeting.

He said, sure, just make every Marine private a sergeant and bump up the rest by two ranks because Marines are tougher and better trained.

The Army dropped the matter after that...according to legend....

During the Cold War, as the Army got the M1 then M 1 A 1, the Marines had to deal with the M-60. After Desert Storm they got the M 1 A 1, but the weight meant "issues" with transportation. LCAC's can only move an M1 in the calmest seas. As the M 1 A 1 gave way to the M 1 A 2 the tank gained weight.

The US Army tried to use the LAV-25, that lead to the Stryker.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3423: Jan 2nd 2016 at 11:38:45 PM

More likely every Marine would be dropped down a rank to allow them to adjust to the learning curve of not being experienced in the Army Way of doing things and more importantly so the federal government could pay them less. [lol]

Imca (Veteran)
#3424: Jan 3rd 2016 at 9:40:54 AM

Could have just folded them into the Navy.

They already ride around in Navy equipment.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#3425: Jan 3rd 2016 at 10:02:17 AM

But if we do/did that we'd have to fold the Air Force back into the Army.

Which at least that part might not be a bad idea. [lol]


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