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TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 10th 2014 at 6:46:04 PM

Tank Goodness in thread form.

The thread to talk about Tanks, APCs note , IFVsnote , Armored Cars, Tanks, and AFVsnote  in general.

Because these vehicles come up a lot across various threads it would be nice to have a place to discuss them specifically. Thread is for discussing pretty much all varieties of these vehicles, past, present, future, and even fictional.

"Yea verily, though I charge through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am driving a house sized mass of fuck you." —Anonymous Mammoth Tank crewman, Tiberium Wars


This post Contains a large amount of information on the subject. This includes videos and links to sites that specialize in the knowledge of things armored. Links Gathered and sorted courtesy of Achaemenid.

Sparky Warning: A simple warning that additional research into certain topics will likely turn up info from a well known crank named Mike Spark's, his website Combat Reform, and his various supporters. His particular brand of crankery has even caused problems on Globalsecurity.org, Wikipedia, and numerous other websites.

A summary of Mike Spark's

edited 27th Dec '14 10:15:42 AM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 6:52:58 PM

Yay, tanks.

I don't know a whole lot about them, but I think they are cool.

That's why I really hate it in so many speculative fiction, especially ones hailing from Japan, tanks constantly gets blown up left and right. YES, I know why that happens, showing the power of the monster, villain, yadda yadda yadda.

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Dec 10th 2014 at 6:57:08 PM

Japan's just mad that all their tanks were crap in the war.

Oh really when?
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 6:58:26 PM

Yeah, come to think of it, Japanese tanks probably do suck, at least in comparison to NATO nations'. [lol]

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
Joesolo Indiana Solo Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:00:08 PM

Well in World War II they were COMPLETE shit. As in, normal rifles could often penetrate their frontal armor shit.

I'm baaaaaaack
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:01:39 PM

I have an idea for a trope derived about tanks.

I call it The Sherman Tank Effect. The trope usage is basically if there's friendly AFV's for the protagonists they will get blown up possibly en masse to either A) establish just how serious the resistance is here B) show the player in a video game their next objective C) show the basis of Dwindling Party D) show stylistic effect E) show a War Sequence between the Redshirt Army and the Mooks F) show just how screwed or how deep in shit characters are G) any combination of the above.

Named for the M4 Sherman Tanks seen in the Call of Duty World War Two games who's often primary reason for existence was to get blown up spectacularly by the player's next objective, usually a Flak 88.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:02:48 PM by MajorTom

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:01:40 PM

Well, that's PRETTY bad, all right.

Seriously, what's even the point of having a tank if it can't block a lousy rifle rounds?

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:06:17 PM

^ I present to you the PT-76. A modern light tank that fails to defend against .50 caliber HMG ammo. We're talking .50 ball here.

But it'll swim across any river you throw at it (or possibly even the ocean if you gave it enough gas) and it's so small and tiny it's very hard to hit. The Russians still have a few operational and in storage. Served as the basis for a lot of SAM systems, mobile triple-A and even the BMP series of IFV's.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:13:08 PM

If I recall, most Japanese tanks were originally designed for infantry support, and going up against Allied tanks was something of a nasty wake-up call for them.

From what I'm told, it was the only time the Shermans got to be the big bad tank around.

I don't have my glasses so I can't read anything. I don't even know how I drove here.
entropy13 わからない from Somewhere only we know. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
わからない
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:13:59 PM

Well the Type 90 and Type 10 aren't tanks to scoff at. Especially the Type 10. It gets to match the other MB Ts while being slightly smaller. It's quite expensive though because all of the parts are locally-produced (the gun is a licensed design, but made in Japan). So only the Le Clerc is more expensive. LOL

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:20:52 PM

^^^ Shermans tore the shit out of Italian tanks. It was only against anything more powerful than a Panzer IV that Shermans had trouble with.

Remember, an A3 Sherman could kill with its 75mm gun upwards of 80% of all Wehrmacht AFV's and materiel on the first shot at range. At close range and to the sides or rear it could destroy a little over 90% of all Wehrmacht materiel.

The 76mm versions like the Easy Eight (a favorite in Korea) could pretty much destroy anything that wasn't a Tiger II or a post-war tank.

The 90mm tank destroyer variants could destroy anything in the Wehrmacht arsenal.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:22:11 PM by MajorTom

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:22:00 PM

[up][up][up]Now if only those were around 70 years ago. tongue

Tom: Now I'm curious about the quality of Italian tanks.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:24:09 PM by Parable

I don't have my glasses so I can't read anything. I don't even know how I drove here.
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:23:15 PM

I wonder what would have happened if M1 Abrams was around WWII, assuming that America had enough logistic resources to properly run them. [lol]

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:23:57 PM

A single platoon would have taken Normandy.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:25:57 PM

Tom: Now I'm curious about the quality of Italian tanks.

They were in a word: Unremarkable.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
entropy13 わからない from Somewhere only we know. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
わからない
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:28:06 PM

Now if only those were around 70 years ago

The post was made in response to d_Roy's "in comparison with NATO nations" comment. For obvious reasons NATO also didn't exist 70 years ago.

And during the early years Japan also had M46/47/48 Pattons, so they weren't trailing NATO during the 50s either. Then the Type 61 came, easily matching the Leopard 1s, Chieftains, and M60s.

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:28:30 PM

Now I'm imagining German troops either desperately calling for artillery/air support, or running away while crying out 40s German equivalent of "Hax!" [lol]

Is a platoon of tanks consisting of four tanks?

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:38:00 PM

d Roy: That's why I really hate it in so many speculative fiction, especially ones hailing from Japan

I guess Girls und Panzer must have made you happy.

I don't have my glasses so I can't read anything. I don't even know how I drove here.
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:39:02 PM

Haven't got around watching it yet. It's pretty far down on my watchlist. XP

Also, I'm not overly fond of those exclusively high school girl cast anime, with few exceptions.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:39:57 PM by dRoy

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
entropy13 わからない from Somewhere only we know. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
わからない
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:40:35 PM

[up][up][up]5 tanks to a platoon.

The first tank battle for an American unit in World War II was here, when a platoon of M3 Stuarts (the company only have enough fuel to, er, fuel a platoon for combat) went up against Type 95s of one regiment.

[up]And you will regret having it too far down your list.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:41:14 PM by entropy13

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:43:49 PM

Ah, five.

And for the future reference, don't ever tell me I'm missing out on something. Just don't.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:46:12 PM by dRoy

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
entropy13 わからない from Somewhere only we know. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
わからない
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:55:55 PM

[up]Except I didn't. Seriously though, are everybody in TV Tropes' forums like this nowadays?

"You'll regret having it too down your list" = "You are missing something"

WTF? You can't, I don't know, interpret it as perhaps moving it to #3 on your list instead of #10 or something?

edited 10th Dec '14 8:01:31 PM by entropy13

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
dRoy Perpetually clueless from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Perpetually clueless
Dec 10th 2014 at 7:59:12 PM

Considering I have shows like The Sopranos, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, The Unit up there, yeah, it's staying down. But that's off-topic, and I shall proceed to drop it.

Anyhow. Obligatory Top Gear reference.

edited 10th Dec '14 8:02:51 PM by dRoy

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
Dec 10th 2014 at 8:03:47 PM

Back to armored vehicles. What's this I here about Russian tanks having evil angry red eyes?

edited 10th Dec '14 8:05:21 PM by Parable

I don't have my glasses so I can't read anything. I don't even know how I drove here.

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