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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46226: Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:37:16 AM

I mean, most redemption arcs are rather clear cut. None of them have really gone into detail like Endeavor's.

In any other story, Endeavor would have probably became an Arc Villain and soundly beaten by the heroes. In fact, that was completely expected and wanted by the fanbase and the fact that Hori tried redeeming him was a left field move. So the skepticism was warranted because...nobody would have expected a character like Endeavor to get any real depth, because its never been done before.

Even someone like Vegeta's redemption arc was pretty glossed over.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#46227: Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:40:08 AM

It’s the Vegeta Syndrome, which audiences are more used to. You take a time-skip & afterwards you just say the character is better now. In the case of Vegeta we never saw how exactly he made things up with Burma to begin living with her & raising Trunks.

Endeavor is the very rare case of the audience seeing an actual ongoing redemption.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:40:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#46228: Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:45:09 AM

There's a distinct humorous element to Vegeta's that makes it work better than, say, Itachi's IMO. We get a time skip and suddenly this grand alien warrior prince has been "domesticated" by completely normal humans and is hilariously in denial about that fact.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#46229: Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:49:26 AM

At one point murderously in denial about that before switching back to humorous.

And you got to admit, one of the more vicious villains of the series becoming a wholesome family man is really funny.

And Itachi wasn't redeemed, his crimes were retroactively blamed on a different party, he had his evilness retconned.

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 2nd 2020 at 2:50:35 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#46230: Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:58:20 AM

Sasuke though had all his making up during the time-skip....... Eh who we kidding, no one holds anything against him because no one holds anything against the Uchihas.

God that’s some horrible redemptions.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 2nd 2020 at 10:58:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46231: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:19:00 AM

Easily Forgiven may as well be trope codified in Shonen.

A rather extreme example is when someone who was wrong by the redeemed character falls in love with them.

Shout outs to Gajeel and Levy.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#46232: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:27:28 AM

I wished there were more occasions of Rejected Redemption, like what happened with Sonia and Souma in Saint Seiya Omega.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46233: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:30:10 AM

I think there aren't too many cases of that because its really cynical...and most shonen are high on the idealistic scale.

"Hey, we know you're changing for the better, but I still refuse to accept you so fuck off"

Unless the character being rejected is extreme unsympathetic, its honestly too depressing

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#46234: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:37:36 AM

More that the character being offered a chance at redemption and forgiviness rejects it for whatever reason.

In Sonia's case, family loyalty.

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#46235: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:38:33 AM

Shout outs to Gajeel and Levy.
I will always defend these two because Gajeel actually worked to try and redeem himself to her, even letting Jet and Droy beat the crap out of him as penance, as well as protecting Levy when Laxus tried zapping her just for talking.

Gajeel's redemption was honestly the best redemption in Fairy Tail, since it wasn't so easily done and even towards the final arc of the original manga, he was still regretful for what he'd done and felt sacrificing himself to save Levy and Pantherlily was fitting based on his sins.

The romance also worked out because it was one that knew to take it slow. Levy was rightfully frightened of Gajeel after he joined the guild, and didn't just forget it all after he saved her from Laxus. It took until Sirius Island for her to even come close to connecting with Gajeel after he'd tried to help her out, namely requiring their fight with the Grimoire Heart goons. What started as Fire-Forged Friends proceeds to slowly develop across the series into a full blown romance, to the point the sequel series clarifies that, yeah, Levy is pregnant.

Fairy Tail has a lot of flaws, no doubt. Gajeel and Levy isn't one of them.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Comun Since: Jun, 2012
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#46237: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:50:05 AM

If Twice had killed Hawks' father out of panic when he was a child soldier, raised by a manipulative stepmother to be suicidally loyal and obedient while his actual father is too centered on revenge to notice the damage being done to him and the two had some rather thick romantic tension, then yes.

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 2nd 2020 at 3:50:34 PM

Comun Since: Jun, 2012
#46238: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:55:53 AM

Uh, one half of the conflict is a child soldier and you can find sexual tension if you look hard enough, so that's close enough for me.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#46239: Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:57:05 AM

Well, techinically every Saint is or was a child soldier because they all start at like, 13 or something.

But we're talking about like 10-year-old forced to commit murder territory.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46240: Sep 2nd 2020 at 12:01:47 PM

@rebelfalcon: I agree, I do think their whole dynamic was done well. Levy was legit afraid of Gajeel before she warmed up to him, and what the latter did weighed heavily on his conscious even after the fact.

I'm just musing how extreme it was how the two started and where they ended up.

@Hail Muffins: That's more or less qhY Endeavor is doing; he's accepted that he's done too much damage for things to just be forgiven, to the point of exiling himself from his family so they'll be able to live a life free from his influence.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#46241: Sep 2nd 2020 at 1:22:43 PM

Funny thing is, though I wasn't expecting Endeavor to be redeemed, I also wasn't expecting him to be arrested or die or anything. It felt like too much time had passed and the story was just not progressing in a way to even imply the former, and the latter also didn't seem right because Endeavor, even at his worst, wasn't treated as a "villain".

My original thought for the story would be that Shoto would just learn to let go and live his own life, while Endeavor just sulked for all eternity that his dreams would never come true, and his son wasn't under his command. A lesson to be learned, but far from any reconciliation.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46242: Sep 2nd 2020 at 1:28:13 PM

Well Endeavor would have still be hailed as a hero of Shoto cut him off from his life. Not exactly a karmic punishment for someone so horrible.

Him actually going through a redemption arc was the last thing I was expecting, but it felt like that was gonna happen when Shoto ultimately accepted to intern under him even if he can't stand him.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#46243: Sep 2nd 2020 at 1:39:40 PM

Also, many people base their view of the morality of actions on how much they like the character doing it compared to being affected, which naturally flows into who they want or don't want redeemed.

So for some people Hawks becomes the Devil worse than anyone in the League for killing Twice, despite all of the circumstances that pretty much forced his hand there, because people really like Twice. Conversely, people like Shigaraki more than they like Gran Torino, so the former killing the latter isn't that bad or, at it's most extreme, something to be actively cheered on.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 2nd 2020 at 4:00:19 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46244: Sep 2nd 2020 at 1:58:12 PM

I wished there were more occasions of Rejected Redemption, like what happened with Sonia and Souma in Saint Seiya Omega.

What’s the deal with these two? I’m curious.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46245: Sep 2nd 2020 at 1:58:47 PM

Jerkass Dissonance.

Fictional assholes are more likable than real ones.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#46246: Sep 2nd 2020 at 2:40:08 PM

Funny enough, Eden's Zero (from Fairy Tail's writer) did a redemption rejection of sort. (Of the "offer villain a chance to redeem but they violently lash out" )

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#46247: Sep 2nd 2020 at 2:59:50 PM

Eh Rave did it a few times too, though really if you're as far gone as Shiggy you're never gonna consider redemption.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#46248: Sep 2nd 2020 at 3:05:48 PM

Yeah, but it wouldn't stop some authors from trying to shove in a redemption because the hero was so saintly. So far, Hori is sticking to it.

Wake me up at your own risk.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46249: Sep 2nd 2020 at 4:12:03 PM

Which is ironic given that Midoriya is probably one of the nicest Shonen protagonists to date.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#46250: Sep 2nd 2020 at 4:16:40 PM

I enjoy a good redemption story very much, emphasis on good. Vegeta's worked because it was so ridiculously improbable that it wrapped back around to both a ton of fun and oddly relatable. Endeavor's works because we're getting a lot of introspection with him to assure the audience that his desire to atone is genuine. Probably lots of other ways you can do one too.


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