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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41426: Apr 16th 2020 at 2:00:11 PM

I mean, I don't necessarily agree with that either. Stealing Quirks is AFO's thing; that OFA normally requires the users willingness to transfer shouldn't inherently mean that AFO can't steal it. It does seem to mean that, but I wouldn't really be surprised if it wasn't the case. Neither of these things are normal Quirks to begin with.

But, like, The Doctor straight up said "after these four months, everything will be yours, even One For All". There aren't a lot of other ways for that to be taken.

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41427: Apr 16th 2020 at 2:05:56 PM

I mean it hasn’t been outright confirmed, but it’s a very safe assumption that the power that requires a willing transfer can’t be stolen by AFO, notwithstanding its uniqueness. Why hasn’t he stolen it before if he could? He’s outright killed most of its holders or at least beaten them to near-death right before their desperate transfer to the next holder, so if he had the capacity to do so, he definitely had chances.

I’m not saying that it won’t happen or that it’s impossible, just that I’m looking forward to the explanation if that’s the case, since it basically breaks the rules of OFA as we know it.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Apr 16th 2020 at 2:09:12 AM

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41428: Apr 16th 2020 at 2:07:31 PM

I mean, I think it has been outrighted confirmed, is what I'm saying. That's part of why the Doctor is doing what he's doing. He confirmed, and now apparently devised away around it.

That's part of why I said it's likely he's making Shigaraki better All For One.

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41429: Apr 16th 2020 at 2:38:29 PM

Yeah, not sure I’m explaining myself well, I’m not disputing what the doctor said, what it means or that that’s his goal; how it’ll work vs. the willingness clause is what I’m mostly wondering about.

Since we’ve had so many blocks preventing people from copying OFA or replicating it, being able to say no to the clause is a huge deal, and I’m intensely curious as to how it would work.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
WashTheLaundryHero Since: Jun, 2019
#41430: Apr 16th 2020 at 3:08:03 PM

Af O must have tried to steal Of A at some point. Otherwise how could the doctor know that he can't?

But here's an alternate theory: what if he did steal Of A and he just couldn't handle the combined power of both quirks?

If you check out the entire conversation in Chapter 246, the doctor is actually going on about quirk singularity, how the 'memory' needs to match the 'software' or else quirks will eventually go out of control, how that was a big issue for Af O specifically, etc.

To me the implication seems to be that whatever he's going to do with Shigaraki has to do with that.

Edited by WashTheLaundryHero on Apr 16th 2020 at 3:09:19 AM

mythbuster Since: Jan, 2010
#41431: Apr 16th 2020 at 3:09:37 PM

I actually thought it would be interesting if Eri could restore Mirio's quirk, but only by reverting him to early childhood, before he developed his quirk. If Mirio accepts that offer, he'd get his quirk back, but the price would be turning into a small child, with no means of turning back except by The Slow Path.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41432: Apr 16th 2020 at 3:24:37 PM

If he gets to keep his memories (and as noted earlier in this thread, Eri doesn't seem to affect memories), then that would be a pretty good deal.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41433: Apr 16th 2020 at 4:12:21 PM

[up][up][up]I think it all goes together; Shigaraki would ideally have more "memory space", could steal One For All, and potentially do a host of other things All For One couldn't. At least , if the process was complete.

Edited by LSBK on Apr 16th 2020 at 6:12:45 AM

Druplesnubb Editor of Posts Since: Dec, 2013
Editor of Posts
#41434: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:38:12 PM

and I don't think that's how the bullets actually work. Three's no injury to repair until after you're hit with the bullet, bullet is what's damaging the Quirk in the first place. From what's been described, it sounds like Overhaul found a way to isolate Eri's Quirk Factor, and make it so it only attacks a person's Quirk Factor.

This doesn't contradict what Cozzer said in any way whatsoever? In fact the fact that the bullets have modified Eri's quirk factor to only target your quirk factor is exactly what Cozzer said. It's also how Overhaul himself describes it, so I'm not sure what there even is to argue. The fact that people who haven't been hit by a bullet don't have bullet wounds is both blatantly obvious to everyone and completely unrelated to anything being discussed.

Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I've always been skeptical of the idea that she can fix Mirio herself - she didn't take away his Quirk, so why is the assumption she can restore?
It was her quirk that took away his power. The quirk rewinding bullets were made from refining her quirk factor. How is the argument that she can't undo it because she didn't cause it even supposed to make sense in the first place? Eri didn't impale Deku's leg or break his bones, but she could undo all of that just fine. Eri didn't fuse Overhaul with Shin or Rikiya, but she still unfused him with no problems. Eri didn't give birth to her dad unless you're gonna propose an even dumber time travel theory than the one with Bakugo and Kirishima, but that didn't stop her from unmaking him.

And this stuff is also why I've never gotten the assumption that Eri could heal All Might. Yeah, it can be used to in effect heal, but some of All Might's organs are just gone. How would that work, exactly, she would "rewind" and an effect would be his organs popping back into existence inside of him? Maybe it actually would work that way, but I certainly don't think that should just be the running assumption.
That is literally how Eri's quirk has been shown to work in the past. Deku went form a large part of his leg being just gone to it being back again. Eri's power is literally described as rewinding living beings to a previous state, either physically (like with her healing, unmaking and unfusing), or more metaphorically (returning quirked humans to quirkless humans and Overhauls comment that she could turn a human into an ape, which is the same thing as turning a quirked human into a quirkless human except on a bigger scale). All Might once had all his organs and now he doesn't, so Eri sohuld be able to rewind him back to the state where he had his organs unless all the descriptions of how her Quirk works have been wrong. Similarly, Lemillion And All Might both used to have a quirk but now don't, so she should be able to rewind them to the state where they had it.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Apr 16th 2020 at 2:40:00 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41435: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:46:43 PM

[up]Can't really go in depth right now but:

1) the misunderstanding has already been hashed out.

2) No, Eri did not make his Quirk go away herself, and her power being a part of what made it does not mean it inherently follow her power can undue it.

3) That's just straight up wrong. Izuku's legs were never "straight up gone" and, to me her rewinding things back to before they are broken is very different from her rewinding things back into existence which she would have to do because some of All Might's organs are just straight up gone. And we have been given no instance to believe she would create new ones with her power.

Edited by LSBK on Apr 16th 2020 at 8:01:03 AM

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41436: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:58:14 PM

Similarly, Lemillion And All Might both used to have a quirk but now don't, so she should be able to rewind them to the state where they had it.

Wait, Eri rewinding All Might back to having OFA? Eh, not sure about that.

That would basically create two One For Alls at a time, which...feels weird? One For All can't exactly be duplicated or copied as we see, since Monoma's attempt didn't do it.

Maybe she would put him in an OFA-like state rather than having the Quirk again? Even that feels awkward. She might be able to regenerate/restore his injuries, but giving him OFA again is probably off the table.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41437: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:02:07 PM

I thought Monoma did copy OFA, it was just completely useless because it's a stockpile Quirk and he couldn't copy the stockpile.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41438: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:06:37 PM

Yeah. It's a stockpile Quirk fundamentally, but it's evolved way past that at this point. Just how it developed sentience and all of the mystical magical stuff it does is up in the air, but Monoma couldn't replicate that part of it either, which is why I think it's kinda immune to stuff that would duplicate or copy it.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41439: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:13:48 PM

That had nothing to do with what happened with Monoma though. One For All is special in some ways, but in others it's just another Quirk. And it works like a Quirk to Monoma can't properly use because some of those just exist.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#41440: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:15:10 PM

Yeah. Monoma himself understood why it didn't work when he tried to copy Eri's quirk and realized it worked on a similar stockpile principle.

Deku also commented to himself that it was a good thing Monoma failed since there was no way he'd be ready for the backlash of power.

One Strip! One Strip!
ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41441: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:22:52 PM

Fair enough. The base, "regular" (relatively speaking) architecture of the Quirk is what he couldn't replicate, but the mystical part is what keeps it out of the hands of people that aren't designated wielders is what I mean. Basically my idea is that the mystical part would keep it from being copied and exist twice if Eri tried to rewind All Might back to his OFA state.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Apr 16th 2020 at 6:22:57 AM

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#41443: Apr 16th 2020 at 8:13:58 PM

Okay wow this one is so good, I thought it was an official stay home thing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tlieilt_625p/status/1250804087286665216

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
mythbuster Since: Jan, 2010
#41444: Apr 16th 2020 at 8:38:39 PM

That One For All can only be transferred by the wielder's consent is probably part of the original user's quirk. It was the power to bestow power on others, not something that can be taken.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#41445: Apr 16th 2020 at 9:20:21 PM

Which, combined with its ability to collect the Quirks of users, is actually pretty good. If he had never received the stockpiling Quirk from AFO (and found out how his Quirk worked, somehow), One For All still would have been a powerful ability. The stockpiling Quirk was just a lot more visible than the rest of it.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#41446: Apr 16th 2020 at 9:33:57 PM

AFO getting defeated by brute force instead of their Quirks must feel weird for the successors. tongue

devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#41447: Apr 16th 2020 at 11:08:28 PM

I would assume the Doctor's method of retrieving OFA is whatever method he uses to copy quirks in the first place. Because while AFO makes the nomu process easier, the doctor CAN do it without him. And we saw he copied Twice without killing Bubaigawara, so if Shigaraki can beat and get his hands on Izuku, OFA is within his reach. No need for a souped up AFO or anything.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41448: Apr 16th 2020 at 11:14:41 PM

Maybe, but the point isn't just getting OFA; the point is getting everything, of which OFA is a part they couldn't before.

devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#41449: Apr 16th 2020 at 11:20:20 PM

Sure, but we don't know exactly when the doctor started copying quirks. Nomu are a relatively recent invention from what it seems, and prior to that AFO could not beat All Might. So before AFO's defeat they could not get the quirk, and after AFO's defeat they could not beat the user to get the quirk.

Presumably, if All Might had lost to AFO, they would've stolen OFA. At which point they'd have the two strongest quirks in the world, and nothing would be out of reach ever again.

After all, OFA and AFO together means that the user can steal any quirk and add it to their own permanently.

Edited by devak on Apr 16th 2020 at 8:21:25 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41450: Apr 16th 2020 at 11:29:33 PM

Again, maybe, but the context of that discussion does not lead itself to the Doctor talking about just making a replica OFA; he's talking about Shigaraki being able to do something AFO could not when the process is over.


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