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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41401: Apr 15th 2020 at 10:16:52 PM

And since we still have no real idea what Eri is doing, I'm constantly bemused by people just acting as if all of these assumptions about her powers are just facts.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#41402: Apr 15th 2020 at 11:11:59 PM

[up]Turns out her real quirk is the ability to make people in another universe argue about what her power is.

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RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#41403: Apr 16th 2020 at 4:48:48 AM

IGNORE THIS. I SHOULD'T MAKE A POST AFTER JUST WAKING UP AND NOT HAVING COFFEE. I WAS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 16th 2020 at 8:15:12 AM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
WashTheLaundryHero Since: Jun, 2019
#41404: Apr 16th 2020 at 4:50:26 AM

Isn't that explicitly stated in the story?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#41405: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:06:13 AM

Yeah, Overhaul literally describes it as rewinding whatever living being she's touching, which just so happens to include "back to before they even existed" if she spends enough time touching the affected being. It's even named Rewind.

On a different note, Name-Meaning Change sounds like a perfect fit for Ochaco convincing Izuku to reinterpret "Deku" as a contraction of dekiru (meaning "can do [something]") rather than its original meaning of "useless, good-for-nothing, fool", right?

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 16th 2020 at 3:06:34 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#41406: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:11:16 AM

Okay then, I am an idiot. That's what I get for posting the minute I wake up without coffee. Ignore that post.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 16th 2020 at 9:36:13 AM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#41407: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:51:34 AM

You know, ironically Rewind's depicted effect on Izuku can be used as a solid argument for proving mind-body dualism in the MHA setting, because if there really was no objective distinction between the brain and the mind, then logically Izuku's consciousness should have been rewound backwards alongside the rest of his body, when in fact it's shown clearly that his consciousness did not undergo any such phenomenon.

Or you could just go with the Doylist explanation that Horikoshi didn't think about the ramifications of rewinding the state of a living being's body along the temporal axis without specifiying the extent of the rewinding. But I don't like settling for Doylist explanations.

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 16th 2020 at 3:52:07 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Cozzer Since: Mar, 2015
#41408: Apr 16th 2020 at 5:54:57 AM

Well, it's also true that Eri's Quirk always rewinds part of the person: as long as there are injuries, she rewinds just them (Deku thinks this is because of Eri's kind nature, which makes sense considering how closely out-of-control Quirks are bound to emotions).

It's how Overhaul was able to make his bullets only target the Quirk-factor part of people, leaving everything else as is.

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41409: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:21:06 AM

I brought it up in the anime thread a while back, but “Restore” is a more accurate name with what Eri’s Quirk does than “Rewind”; she restores things to a previous state of being, rather than rewinding then back in time per se, whether it’s existence to nonexistence, an injured person to an uninjured person, or (with the bullets made from her) people with Quirks back to regular pre-Quirk people.

Thinking of it like that makes it make sense within in its own rules, at least.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#41410: Apr 16th 2020 at 6:59:41 AM

[up] Except "Restore", which is inherently benign-sounding, seems very inappropriate to apply to the in-universe first example of her Quirk's effect, namely her father being literally erased from existence.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41411: Apr 16th 2020 at 7:14:05 AM

[up] That still counts as restoring a creature to a previous state of being; existence to nonexistence.

Think of it like a save state. He existed, then she loaded a previous save where he didn’t exist with her power.

Shigaraki speaks in video game terms, they can also be used to describe Eri’s Quirk. tongue

As far as how benign the name sounds, I don’t know if that is relevant in this case. I mean “Rewind” isn’t naturally dangerous-sounding either.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Apr 16th 2020 at 7:21:52 AM

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#41412: Apr 16th 2020 at 7:32:52 AM

Todoroki is coming to Jump Force apparently.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#41413: Apr 16th 2020 at 7:35:58 AM

The video game save state analogy doesn't work when you consider that save states can have the game character in an injured state. And "Rewind" is neutral-sounding, which fits how the Quirk, despite how horrific it can be in its currently uncontrolled state, is not inherently "evil" (and certainy not inherently "good" either). That said, it's certainly "kind" in the sense that it doesn't wait until the target's incurred injuries cause pain to them, it fixes the injuries instantly before the nervous system has any time to register the damage.

Edited by MarqFJA on Apr 16th 2020 at 5:41:08 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41414: Apr 16th 2020 at 7:48:23 AM

[up] The analogy is more meant to illustrate the way her power works, not be a 1:1 comparison. Yes, you can have save states with injured characters, but the point of a save state is to go back to a previous state of being for a character or game regardless of the circumstances of the current state.

Izuku breaks his limbs every time he uses 100%, Eri more or less instantly restores his state back to uninjured while she’s in contact with him.

Just rewinding Mirio in time wouldn’t do anything, since he was born with his Quirk factor; restoring his body to the pre-Quirk regular human state, on the other hand, would.

That’s why it makes most sense (relatively speaking) that her power seems to work not by sending things back in time, but by overwriting a previous state onto them.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#41415: Apr 16th 2020 at 8:11:02 AM

    Rabbit taxonomy stuff 

Lagomorphs started out as a suborder of rodents (you can see it in the Theme Naming, the other traditional rodent suborders are Sciuromorphs, Caviomorphs (now a subset of Hystricomorphs), Myomorphs, Castoromorphs and Anomaluromorphs (previously subsets of Sciuromorphs)); but zoologists about a hundred years ago got paranoid about rabbits not being closely related to rodents, and erected lagomorphs as an independant order.

Then, turns out lagomorphs are the closest relatives rodents have; we had to erect Glires as the group that includes both, just because of paranoia and tradition; for all intents and purposes, lagomorphs versus rodents is an split as valid as porcupines and cavies versus other rodents (and the cavie group was ALSO suspect of not being rodents, because some mammalogists may believe the Glire characters are prone to being convergently evolved or something like that).

Oh, for the record, "class", "order" and the like are empty words, they have no meaning whatsoever. A group is defined by its contents, not by a cathegory.

Oh, and humans are fish, unless we restrict fish to teleosts and their closer relatives; that way, we wouldn't be fish, but neither would be sharks or lungfish (and that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make, sharks are sharks, and teleosts are weird fucks compared to them).

I still wonder how Mirio's character arc will proceed, of how (and even if) he'll get his quirk back...

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#41416: Apr 16th 2020 at 8:16:28 AM

[up][up][up][up] Huh so he is.

https://www.ign.com/videos/jump-force-shoto-todoroki-trailer

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41417: Apr 16th 2020 at 9:10:30 AM

Well, it's also true that Eri's Quirk always rewinds part of the person: as long as there are injuries, she rewinds just them (Deku thinks this is because of Eri's kind nature, which makes sense considering how closely out-of-control Quirks are bound to emotions). It's how Overhaul was able to make his bullets only target the Quirk-factor part of people, leaving everything else as is.

I don't think that's what Izuku actually meant when he said that, and I don't think that's how the bullets actually work. Three's no injury to repair until after you're hit with the bullet, bullet is what's damaging the Quirk in the first place. From what's been described, it sounds like Overhaul found a way to isolate Eri's Quirk Factor, and make it so it only attacks a person's Quirk Factor. Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I've always been skeptical of the idea that she can fix Mirio herself - she didn't take away his Quirk, so why is the assumption she can restore? That's not even how the series frames it, Mirio just says "When she gains more control we'll ask her to try, and if she can, great, if not we'll try some other things." I've always found the focus on Eri here very strange, especially when we know a away to restore Quirks already exist in the forum of the serum capsules.

And this stuff is also why I've never gotten the assumption that Eri could heal All Might. Yeah, it can be used to in effect heal, but some of All Might's organs are just gone. How would that work, exactly, she would "rewind" and an effect would be his organs popping back into existence inside of him? Maybe it actually would work that way, but I certainly don't think that should just be the running assumption.

Cozzer Since: Mar, 2015
#41419: Apr 16th 2020 at 12:06:26 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I was unclear: I just meant that the bullets are based on the premise that Eri's Quirk can (and usually does) rewind just part of a person, so it could be made to target just the person's Quirk factor.

(Though I still believe there is a connection between Eri's personality and the fact that her Quirk rewinds injuries first)

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41420: Apr 16th 2020 at 12:51:55 PM

Regarding Shigarki and what's been happening to him, I think there's been enough clues (including some movie stuff) to be reasonably certain that (possibly among other things) the Doctor is trying to make him a better All For One.

But as we've seen, he's only at 75% completion, so while he's sure to have way more potential now, he shouldn't be able to do everything. The Doctor made a big deal about once the process is complete even One For All will be his for the taking. So that was basically confirmation of the long running theory that One For All is the only Quirk that All For One couldn't steal, and possibly hinting that it's eventually going to happen in the series at some point. But since Shigaraki isn't complete yet, I imagine he still won't be able to do that when he wakes up. As for any other drawbacks, difficult to say right now that we haven't actually seen anything.

Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#41421: Apr 16th 2020 at 1:12:11 PM

I do wonder if Shigaraki will be stuck at 70-80% completion, and will essentially be left in an incredibly powerful but not quite complete state, where he has some kind of weakness or flaw that can be exploited by the heroes to give them a chance against what would otherwise have been an insurmountable foe. Not necessarily an Achilles Heel directly, but something like a limit to how long he can operate or not quite complete immunity to his own effect limiting his ability to just collapse everything around him.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#41422: Apr 16th 2020 at 1:26:19 PM

My guess is that he'll reach 100% eventually, but that it has to happen naturally in stead of the highly boosted state in that tube.

I also think the lack of completion will mean he'll have more trouble figuring out his new abilities, mirroring Izuku.

[up][up] i've mentioned before that i think the Nomu tech is specifically to restore AFO to the height of his power, and absent him, Shigaraki is in stead receiving that treatment.

Edited by devak on Apr 16th 2020 at 10:30:14 AM

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41423: Apr 16th 2020 at 1:48:49 PM

Man, that would be some hax if souped-up Shigaraki could eventually steal OFA, given its design to deliberately block being stolen or replicated or anything.

If the doctor’s work can somehow circumvent that, that’s impressive and terrifying at the same time.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41424: Apr 16th 2020 at 1:51:28 PM

I mean, but it wasn't? One For All's entire existence is a fluke. A fluke that, for some reason, seems to be the only power All For One couldn't steal, but that certainly wasn't intentional, and trying to circumvent that is entirely reasonable.

Edited by LSBK on Apr 16th 2020 at 3:52:03 AM

ILikeRobots Aspirant Creativity Wizard from the worlds of my imagination Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Aspirant Creativity Wizard
#41425: Apr 16th 2020 at 1:56:43 PM

Deliberately designed in the Doylist sense to wave questions like “why can’t people get it by stealing an OFA holder’s DNA,” I should have clarified. In the Watsonian sense it was a happy accident, but the “must be passed willingly” clause is much more mystical than (pseudo)scientifical, just like the power itself.

Which is why AFO couldn’t steal it, and why if the doctor somehow managed to out-magic it, it would require a huge explanation.

Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.

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