Yup. This is the series where people can be born with biological engines in their legs and it's a natural part of their anatomy, somehow. Quirks are anything and everything, and just exist and happen because they do.
Speaking of One For All in particular, it's far more mystical than scientific in explanation for sure. It's supposedly just a power multiplier that can be transferred to others due to Quirk combination...except it's somehow developed a sentience/consciousness over time, houses sapient ghosts of its past users within it, etc. It very much defies pseudoscientifical explanation at this point.
Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.And it only works if the previous user willingly gives it up. Not to mention the spiritual stuff.
Presumably she's canceling mass too, like in Mass Effect. A layman would describe it as just "canceling gravity," but the whole relationship between mass and inertia is probably too much for her to explain off the cuff.
That's pretty much what's going on here. "Quirks appeared, no we don't know why, now everyone has powers."
And of course Marvel has had many, many contradictory explanations for superpowers, both individually and as a group. I prefer the alien space gods one, but even then they get into the "science" of the individual powers like Cyclops' eyes linking to a dimension of pure punching energy.
Edited by Discar on Apr 14th 2020 at 8:50:19 AM
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.I wonder if the origin of quirks is ever going to be explained.
I feel: yeah probably most likely.
I don't feel like it needs to be though. Not for the central story that's being built up so far, anyway.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers- Emitter: Activation-type Quirks that require a conscious effort to use like Kaminari's Electrification.
- Transformation: Alteration Quirks that allow the users bodies to take on different forms like Tokage's Lizard Tail Cut.
- Mutant: Heteromorphic-type Quirks that permanently alter the body in addition to whatever power they are given like Hawks' Fierce Wings.
Despite this however, Toru is treated as if she were a Heteromorphic-type. If she were though, why wouldn't Toga be invisible? Toga's Quirk replacates the physical appearance, and later the Quirks, of anyone whose blood she ingests, so if Hagakure were truly a Mutant, Toga would theoretically be invisible too since its the result of a mutation rather than the normal quirk, yet according to Horikoshi, she wouldn't. So how can she be a Mutant Class?
Then there's the fact we've seen her unconscious already, both at the camp sleeping and when knocked out by Mustard, yet is still invisible. While people with Transformation Quirks can make their transformations become second nature, they still need some level of focus, and I find it hard to believe she could just keep her invisibility on while unconscious.
Then there's the fact that she seems as if she had two different power sets. A lot of times when it looks like someone in series has two types of powers, they're either justified by being aspects of a single power (Like Bakugo's Nitroglycerin Sweat and Sparks), or the result of a combination power (Like Todoroki's Fire and Ice). Hagakure however has two different sets with no explanation: invisibility and light manipulation.
- Invisibility, as I've said enough times to be a Broken Record, is not the same thing as transparency, best put by Billy Butcher:
Butcher talking to Translucent: "Translucent" doesn't even mean "invisible." It means "semi-transparent."
- Light Manipulation meanwhile is an entirely seperate concept, since she is somehow manipulating photons enough to either disperse in a wave like during the License Exam, or mold them into a certain shape like she did with Aoyama's Naval Laser.
Now, you could argue that her invisible body is just a side effect of her Quirk like Tokoyami's Dark Shadow giving him a bird head or Koda's Anivoice giving him a Rock like appearance, but her invisibility is framed as her Quirk itself rather than a side-effect, and it would still go against what was said in the Q&A.
It just frustrates me because so far, we know the Quirks of every single character in 1-A, and all of their upgrades and Special Moves all seem like natural evolution's of their abilities, the obvious exception being what happens with One for All. Even if they don't scientifically make sense, such as how in gods name OJ is used as a fuel source for Iida's engines or how they can be torn out and just grow back stronger, they at least fit within the established limits of the series and Quirks themselves. But Hagakure's quirk has not been properly explored, looks like two unrelated power sets, and seems to contradict the established classifications of Quirks. It just gets frustrating...
By god do I overthink this shit.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 14th 2020 at 12:10:04 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.I think not explaining where Quirks came from is one of the series' strengths and plays in perfectly with the normalcy of powers and hero society. They're normal now, an ordinary part of society, and people have just accepted them just like the audience basically has to in order to enjoy the story. The 'why' behind Quirks would only really be relevant in the chaos when they first appeared, where people didn't know what to think or what to do.
Just like the simplicity of "they were just born with them" when it comes to explanation of a Marvel mutant's powers, there's strength in simplicity. Makes one able to focus on the characters, their motivation and story at hand without having to come up with a complex or convoluted backstory of the character or world.
Edited by ILikeRobots on Apr 14th 2020 at 9:03:54 AM
Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.Those have never been hard and fast rules, and several people have Quirks that seem like they would be a mixture of those categories.
I mean, this is really the root of it. You are, for some reason, expected a level of thought for this one character, that doesn't exist with any of them. Because if it did, the real answer would be "all of this is impossible so there's no story."
Edited by LSBK on Apr 14th 2020 at 11:08:44 AM
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I've been told I tend to overthink things a lot of times. Really doesn't help that I tend to be more analytical in regards to things and frequently question Fridge Logic. Just check the RWBY or Dumbing of Age forums and they can both confirm I tend to go way deeper than even the creators seem to intend a lot of times.
Now that I think about it, has Toga ever copied a Mutant-type Quirk user? I don't think she has. Copying Emitters she's shown the ability use their Quirk (Ochaco during the villain arc), but we don't have proof that she could copy a Mutant type and look exactly like them.
Even if she could, besides, some Quirks just have seemingly arbitrary limitations or drawbacks on them, probably to balance them or to be thematic. Like Midnight's Quirk being said to work better on men than women or Aizawa being unable to turn off the Quirks of mutant types.
So the whole "she wouldn't turn invisible" thing might just be a limitation of Toga's Quirk to keep her from essentially being nigh-undetectable in her spying and sneaking around were she to get some of Hagakure's blood.
Adventurers: homeless people who steal from tombs and kill things.Onto something else, I could see Aizawa or Mic, or both dying here. Probably not both, probably not even one of them, but if it did happen that's the kind of thing that would have an effect on all of the students, not just a select few. Which might in a way be better than just killing someone like Endeavor or Hawks, even though that would have larger implications for the world. And, plus, at this point I just don't think it's likely that either Endeavor or Hawks is going to die here (well, I never thought it was particularly likely, but I think it's become even less likely).
Edited by LSBK on Apr 14th 2020 at 11:24:21 AM
Midnight incapacitates a lesbian really easily in Vigilantes which makes me think it's not 'men' so much as it is 'people who are attracted to women'
Bewitching EyesOr in other words her Sonambulast has a chemical reaction to the hormone levels in whoever inhales it, hence why it works better and straight men and homosexual women, their hormone levels make them easier targets because they're more likely aroused and able to be seduced.
Dammit! I did it again! Stop overthinking things!
So basically Sabo's reaction to Ace's death....which would make Present Mic Luffy wouldn't it?
All of this reminds of Asimov's Three Kinds of Science Fiction, except substituting superpowers for a scientific invention. I feel like the story started out under the "Adventure" type, but has been consistently becoming more and more of a "Social" one as it goes on.
Also, regarding the question of whether Tooru's quirk is Mutant or Transformation, there two main ways I think you can interpret it that are both consistent with the setting:
- Option 1: Tooru has a Transformation quirk, but due to some sort of biological anomaly the quirk trigger is perpetually stuck in the "on" position.
- Option 2: The quirk classifications, like most sort of classifications, are imperfect, and meant to be broad generalization of types of quirks rather than hard, mutually-exclusive categories. That is, in-universe, most quirks fall into one of the three types, but occasionally some of them either might overlap between categories (Is Tokoyami Mutant because of the bird head, Emitter because of Dark Shadow, or both simultaneously?) or (like in Tooru's case) might simply not be understood well enough to be placed decisively in one category.
I agree with Rebel's assessment of Toru's quirk. I think it's a copout to say 'some don't neatly fit in the categories' when we haven't been given a reason why they don't fit in the categories.
"Magic A" Is "Magic A" can have exceptions as always, but those should be noted and explained. Toru's quirk has always bugged me for how it doesn't make sense in-universe.
This discussion reminds me of something from the ongoing One Piece arc, specifically a character revealed to be a traitor, and along with that revealing that they've been basically lying about (or rather, hiding the true potential) of their powers since forever.
I don't really want to say that's applicable or a supportive of Toru being the spy here, but I believe Horikoshi has said somewhere that he's interesting in going more in-depth about what her Quirk actually is (though I remember that from years ago so...) so I'm curious if that's ever actually going to come up.
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Okay, that makes more sense. Especially considering Kanjuro was introduced in the Dressrosa arc over (Checks Chapter Release dates) seven years ago, so if he's been just putting a performance on since then, it would of course raise questions about how much of him is truth and how much is just another performance. He even has an entire section of Foreshadowing prefaced with "There are quite a few hints that he is The Mole in the Akazaya Nine, which some fans did indeed pick up on, some of which were explainable at the time but stand out in hindsight". So I can see why this reminds you of that.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 14th 2020 at 1:57:04 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.Regarding the Vestiges, i think there are broadly three categories of explanation:
-It's because of the Vestiges
-It's because of OFA
-It's because of Izuku.
1): It's possible that the vestiges do not want to be seen for whatever reason, but they cannot erase their presence entirely. This could be because they don't want to conflict Izuku, for instance because they were villains or AFO supporters and they don't want to confront Izuku with this until he's ready. It seems the First is intent on telling Izuku the story via actual memories, and the two shadows could be the payoff of that.
2) OFA assimilated the personalities and quirks of its users long ago, but only recently were they grown from mere traces into proper quirks and such. It's possible that this development is not straightforward. Lariat was the first to appear solo, and his quirk was activated, so it stand to reason that the shadows are not at a growth level where they can interact. Admittedly not the most interesting reason.
3) OFA's powers were linked to Izuku's heart, AKA his feelings and emotions. Black Whip was linked to his anger and a sense of wanting to grab something. It could be that unresolved issues within Izuku block access to the two vestiges linked to that. For instance, unresolved issues with Bakugo and with his Father.
Edited by devak on Apr 14th 2020 at 8:08:05 PM
Has the three types classification ever been explained inside the story? IIRC it was from a databook.
But in any case, I don't think the clasiffication is the issue here. You can call it whatever you want, but the fact remains that we've seen her quirk is on even when uncosncious (so it's a permanent thing, ergo mutant), but allegedly Toga wouldn't turn invisible with her blood (so it's not a permanent thing, ergo transformation). See? The classification issue is merely a consequence of the real problem, which is that Horikoshi's comment about Toga contradicts what we've seen of her quirk.
The idea someone suggested of her quirk being an active but unconscious effect like breathing is interesting, but I don't think it solves the issue. It's virtually indistinguisable from a mutant-type in practice.
That said, this scenario is too specific to use it as a basis to explain Tooru's quirk and say it makes no sense, imo. For example, it could be about Toga's quirk instead. Maybe she doesn't copy quirks by default when she transforms, and has to always actívate them conciously, even when they're mutant type.

Yeah, most explanations of quirks are less "explanations" and more "more detailed descriptions of what they do."
To take Bakugou for example, his quirk is "causes explosions" and the explanation is "he secretes nitroglycerin in his sweat, which he then detonates", we don't actually know, scientifically speaking, how the quirk functions. We know more details about the process, but exactly how he manages to sweat nitroglycerin or somehow trigger a detonation is still a complete mystery.
It's also odd to get worked up about Tooru's quirk in particular when ultimately just about every other quirk is equally biologically or physically impossible. I mean, even One For All makes very little sense: eating All Might's hair somehow reconfigured Deku's DNA to allow his muscles to generate far more physical force than they're physically capable of generating.
The only time I can see bringing scientific criticism into Quirk analysis is if the more detailed explanation of the quirk isn't accurate to what we actually see the quirk doing. Like how Uraraka's quirk is almost always described as being some form of anti-gravity or gravity cancelling even it must also have the ability to influence an object's inertia (otherwise the "swing a pillar like a baseball bat" thing from the training exercise wouldn't have worked; the pillar still has the same mass, so it would still require a lot of energy to move, so either her power messed with its inertia or she has super strength).
The short version is that every quirk is ultimately something that won't jive with real life sciences. And that's because at the end of the day, they're superpowers. If they fully adhered to the laws of physics, they wouldn't be superpowers; just applied science. The real question is whether or not they're handled in an internally consistent fashion.
Edited by JapaneseTeeth on Apr 14th 2020 at 10:39:46 AM
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