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asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#25526: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:27:12 PM

In many ways, Endeavour is just Bakugou but more.

Bewitching Eyes
Comun Since: Jun, 2012
#25527: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:38:20 PM

Her doing nothing in-universe is due to the author not yet focusing on her yet. You're blaming her for something outside her control (that the author doesn't focus on her).

Having opinions about fictional characters becomes completely meaningless if you use that logic. Horikoshi is definitely to blame for every bad thing that happens in the story, but there's absolutely nothing unfair about disliking Uraraka for the current state of her character.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25528: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:43:09 PM

The fact that he is on the list at all is nothing short of amazing.

Looking back on it, his has been an incredible journey.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#25529: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:46:24 PM

[up][up] I'm not sure I agree, since Horikoshi is directly responsible for the current state of any character in his series.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25530: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:48:51 PM

[up]I don't see how that contradicts Comun's point. If you can like characters you think are handled well even while acknowledging they're not actually making their own choices, I see no contradiction with disliking a character based on how their story is unfolding. The characters aren't in control of anything.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 21st 2018 at 3:52:33 AM

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#25531: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:24:29 PM

I think there's a distinction to be made between disliking the character themselves and disliking how they're being handled by the story. Disliking Uraraka is different from liking Uraraka but disliking that the story is shafting her.

Reaction Image Repository
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25532: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:25:57 PM

But one can easily lead to the other though.

Anyway, I'm a bit miffed Mirio didn't break the Top 10.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25533: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:27:07 PM

Hopefully season 4 will help with that.

As one can assume it can influence the rankings.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#25534: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:31:56 PM

probably cause he has a weird face

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25535: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:36:40 PM

Sakura is a good comparison; she's also mostly defined by her relationships to more important characters, but became obnoxious because of it.

Ochako is just...there. she's not offensive but she's not really interesting either.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#25536: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:40:31 PM

I like Uraraka just fine - she’s kind and lovable, with some very funny moments and a few interesting character beats. The problem is that she hasn’t really done anything of note lately. So while I do dislike how she’s been written, I do like her a lot. Hopefully, she gets more to do later.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Nov 21st 2018 at 5:41:12 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25537: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:49:55 PM

Pretty sure Sakura was designed as intentionally unlikeable so her character growth would stand out more, it's just that said growth was...

Back to Endeavor, I feel like a lot of people equate having a character like him understand that he did a lot of fucked up shit and try to change to whitewashing his actions.

Which doesn't actually make sense, but it became pretty clear awhile ago that a lot of people (for admittedly understandable reasons) can't look at a character like Endeavor objectively.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 21st 2018 at 10:20:16 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#25538: Nov 21st 2018 at 2:56:47 PM

I think there's a distinction to be made between disliking the character themselves and disliking how they're being handled by the story. Disliking Uraraka is different from liking Uraraka but disliking that the story is shafting her.
That's basically where my own head was when I responded to Comun initially. Rightly or wrongly, I was put in mind of all the times I've seen hatred directed towards a character to such an extent I legitimately think that the hater(s) forget they're not actually real.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25539: Nov 21st 2018 at 3:15:08 PM

It should be noted Endeavor had the largest jump, 13 whole spots; 21st to 8th.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25540: Nov 21st 2018 at 4:09:03 PM

So it was brought to my attention that all of Team B has a theme of either sticking things together (Awase and Bondo) or cutting them apart (Tokage and Kamakiri [yeah, we don't know what they do, but it's a safe guess with the names of their Quirks])

Maybe they'll split into pairs one join-y and one separate-y.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#25541: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:16:21 PM

[up] x 4

That's just the kind of mood going around these days. Redemption is perceived by many fans as absolute forgiveness and forgetfulness.

I like to draw a comparison and contrast between Vader in the OT and Kylo in the ST. Vader was redeemed and it was beautiful. But nowadays people want Kylo to die unmourned and hated by all, denied any forgiveness or sympathy.

Call it the partisan times we live in but "people can change" is just not a popular idea now it seems. Especially not when it comes to wifebeaters. I share the earlier post saying having him change and be forgiven is fine but getting back together with his wife is probably going too far. (was she actually his wife? I can't remember if it was stated)

Edited by Nikkolas on Nov 21st 2018 at 8:18:31 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25542: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:20:22 PM

Though it doesn't help that Ren is kind of an annoying twat compared to Vader.

Plus he is in some cases a worse person than Vader was.

I mean Vader never murdered a beloved icon in relatively cold blood after all.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 21st 2018 at 8:22:39 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25543: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:24:23 PM

To be fair, lots of people have called bullshit on Vader's redemption, saying it's pretty pat considering he dies mere moments afterwards, and doesn't need to face the consequences of his actions.

Plus the only person who actually forgave him was his son; Leia apparently still referred to him as Vader and didn't see him as her father...I think.

Redemption is tricky: how far is too far? Where's the point where you do something so awful there's no chance of forgiveness even if you are genuine? How can you even convince people you're sincere? What if they know and don't care?

And with something as...real as spousal abuse, it becomes really murky. You can kill millions, or mind control the hero, or unleash hell beasts, and people will barely flinch in fiction.

But when you bring something like hitting your wife into it, it suddenly can hit very close to home. It's the same with why people hate Bakugou: Bully is a huge trigger for some and that's enough to earn him a lot of negative points.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#25544: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:48:32 PM

And the Vader redemption thing happened before we found out that he was the one who killed his wife by Forcechoking her and triggering labour with fatal results.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25545: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:50:33 PM

And murdering Younglings too.

So now that I think about it, it was only after that damned prequel trilogy that people suddenly were less sold on it.

One Strip! One Strip!
IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#25546: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:55:10 PM

The other difference is that Ren has been offered multiple chances at redemption, and every time chosen to double down on his evil and hurt the ones trying to help him. Plus Anakin was a hero who fell to the dark side. Ren was rotten from the start, and only his bloodline made people bend over backwards to try to raise him to the light despite the fact that he has never done a selfless thing in his life.

Endeavor, meanwhile, was always a hero who had a hidden darkness to him. He was trying to be a force for good, but ended up so blinded by pride he only hurt those who he should have been the best to, and tries desperately to make amends despite being told repeatedly that he can't. That's much more interesting and, to me, sympathetic.

Does anyone actually read these?
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#25547: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:59:39 PM

Oh boohoo, he killed some Jedi brats How many kids were on Alderaan? How many wives?

Fiction is rather absurd when you get down to it. Villains who kill billions of people, or destroy even whole universes, will be forgiven. But god forbid they hurt one person we actually see being hurt.

It's really ludicrous when you think about it. Not a criticism, really. It's human nature mixed with the odd fact that fiction isn't real yet we are expected to treat it as being real. Only we're not expected to treat it as being as real as real life as certain things like lives only have worth in fiction if the author gives them worth, as opposed to reality where teh default is the reverse.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25548: Nov 21st 2018 at 9:01:16 PM

I think it helps that Endeavor doesn't actually expect for them to forgive him. He's trying to make things right, because it's the right thing to do, not because he thinks his family can ever just forgive and forget how he treated all of them.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 21st 2018 at 11:01:42 AM

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#25549: Nov 21st 2018 at 9:03:05 PM

[up][up]A Million Is a Statistic. The same reason that people tend to gloss over the multiple planets full of people that Ren helped kill.

Does anyone actually read these?
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#25550: Nov 21st 2018 at 9:04:03 PM

I have seen some people say that if Endeavor really does want to make amends for what he’s done, he should first remove himself from his family, so that he doesn’t force his presence on them (or something like that).

As he was last seen texting Shoto, that...doesn’t seem to be happening. That said, Shoto blatantly did not respond, so I guess we’ll see where that goes.

Oh God! Natural light!

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