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LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#51: Jan 5th 2015 at 3:59:16 PM

For another movie I would get the argument that the character is still meant to be Asian, but Ghost in the Shell is a very visiual movie and the white Skin and Red Hair of the main character is part of the composition. You can't just change it in this case, and it is easier to pick an actress which looks the part.

...red hair?

The Major looks like this: Film Version / Stand Alone Complex / Arise

Are you sure you're not thinking of Appleseed or something?

edited 5th Jan '15 4:03:01 PM by LizardBite

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#52: Jan 5th 2015 at 4:09:21 PM

Also, swanpride, while on the topic of defending the whitewashing of anime simply based on design, Legend Of Korra technically confirmed that Adult Aang isn't actually Asian either, considering his design is based on Mike's.

So yes, by this logic M. Night technically got Aang's race right. Still doesn't mean it's not completely shitting over its eastern influences.

edited 5th Jan '15 4:16:04 PM by Mattonymy

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GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#53: Jan 5th 2015 at 4:59:00 PM

John Cho's busy with Star Trek 3 and two other projects, but I could see him as Togusa.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#54: Jan 5th 2015 at 6:26:11 PM

The rumor making the rounds around the Internet of Marilyn Manson being cast as the Puppet Master is false, by the way. Probably everyone could sniff it out anyway, but better safe than sorry.

Rupert Sanders (Snow White and the Huntsman) will direct

Snow White and the Huntsman

THIS is the real cause for concern.

I mean, sure, it was better than Mirror Mirror, but that's like damning with faint praise.

edited 5th Jan '15 6:28:09 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#55: Jan 5th 2015 at 7:03:19 PM

It may not be so bad. He may have learned much since that film.

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#56: Jan 5th 2015 at 9:37:37 PM

The actors which were cast for The Last Airbender neither looked the part (with the exception of Aang...arguably, the skin colour was wrong), nor were they particular good actors. Never mind that there were certain cultural references in the series which would have made the casting of Inuit and Asian actors logical. And just because The Last Airbender happens NOT to be an Anime but a Western production, it doesn't made the change right, because the source material demanded something else. I am not sure if you can say the same for Ghost in the Shell. One thing for certain, SJ will most likely rock the role, as usual.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#57: Jan 5th 2015 at 9:41:07 PM

Riiiiight, and I'm 100% sure that the creators interviewed dozens of perfectly capable japanese actresses and in the end chose Scarlett Jo simply because she was so good she beat them all, completely disregarding that she has been in some other giant action films.

BTW unlike Airbender, Motoko Kusanagi (草薙 素子) is a Japanese name regardless of how the audience may interpret her race.

edited 5th Jan '15 9:49:00 PM by Mattonymy

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swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#58: Jan 6th 2015 at 3:02:50 AM

[up] Didn't say that. I just said that they picked a capable actress with a lot of acting chops, and that the "but they were the best for the role" didn't work for The Last Airbender, but it might be true for this pick. After all, Ghost in the Shell might need the push of a big star. Mangas and Anime are not exactly mainstream, they need some draw to get the more casual audience into the theatres. As well known as Ghost in the Shell is in certain circles (mostly animation buffs), it is not something the more general audience would know.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#59: Jan 6th 2015 at 8:53:41 AM

Exactly, Dream Works was afraid it's main audience would be unfamiliar with the source material (or were perhaps banking on that), and choose a mega movie star to star in it just so it can get attention.

Which is my exact problem with the film. They're not Doing It for the Art or even going to attempt to honor the original fans. It's every other Live-Action Adaptation mentality of "let's throw some shit at a wall, get a the trendiest new movie star and see who will lap it up".

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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#60: Jan 6th 2015 at 9:18:29 AM

I usually don't care about the whitewashing... but having a non-Asian person play Motoko Kusanagi seems a bit sketchy to me. I'm kind of on the "I don't like this" side, but my opinion may change.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#61: Jan 6th 2015 at 9:30:14 AM

The Keanu Reeves Cowboy Bebop movie might actually be an alright film because IIRC he is a big fan of the original series.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#62: Jan 6th 2015 at 9:39:22 AM

wild mass guessScar Joh will play detective Monica Kelly in the futuristic Minority Report crime film set in New York City where people can upload their minds to I, Robot but a government conspiracy occurs when hackers "incept" themselves into the head of the president.

She teams up with Bartrow, her commanding officer, and T.H.O.M.A.S. a wise cracking robot spider to investigate.

Brought to you by the visionary director Kristen Stewart's Snow White and the producing genius behind Bratz The Movie and The Amazing Spider Man 2.

edited 6th Jan '15 10:03:04 AM by Mattonymy

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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#63: Jan 6th 2015 at 10:59:56 AM

Er, guys?

Has anyone considered the possibility that Scar Joh knows about the source material a little more than we think she does?

Maybe she's a Closet Geek? Perhaps?

Plus, maybe Steven Spielberg (he did co-found Dream Works FYI) will try to make it so that it doesn't veer off into In Name Only territory. After all, he did say he was a fan of the original manga, right?

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#64: Jan 6th 2015 at 11:42:03 AM

M. Night was a huge fan of the source material too. Same with James Wong and Steve Carrel. In fact, I'd say to make one of these nerd adaptations, it's actually impossible not to be a fan or at least to have watched the original series.

Cosplayers are huge fans of the source material. Doesn't mean I'd trust several millions of dollars at some random con goer to make a feature adaptation.

edited 6th Jan '15 11:46:38 AM by Mattonymy

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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#65: Jan 6th 2015 at 12:23:57 PM

[up]

If what you say is true, then why did they end up sucking? I mean, I can get why M. Night Shyamalan's Last Airbender sucked. Because M. Night Shyamalan.

But what about the others?

EDIT: Also, no one liked Get Smart? Huh. I liked that one when I saw it.

edited 6th Jan '15 12:24:59 PM by TargetmasterJoe

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#66: Jan 6th 2015 at 1:03:41 PM

Because they're American Made Live Action Adaptations? Not exactly rocket science here.

Hell, its gotten to the point where it's rare any of them get above a 50% Rotten

edited 6th Jan '15 1:12:41 PM by Mattonymy

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LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#67: Jan 6th 2015 at 2:19:35 PM

Also, fans have a tendency to be blinded by what they like about a work, focusing on that instead of the elements that actually make it come together and work. The result is often officially sanctioned bad fanfic. We have a whole damn trope on it.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#68: Jan 6th 2015 at 3:06:48 PM

Well hey, All You Need Is Kill did pretty well when adapted into a mainly white-casted film.

Though, I do have to question why a live-action GITS film is needed when we already have one in the form of The Matrix.

edited 6th Jan '15 4:48:47 PM by LDragon2

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#69: Jan 6th 2015 at 3:08:18 PM

[up]Because the lead in The Matrix is a MAAAAAN! (thunder.wav)

edited 6th Jan '15 3:08:28 PM by Quag15

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#70: Jan 6th 2015 at 3:27:14 PM

Well Edge Of Tomorrow had the somewhat advantage of it completely distancing itself from the main story and plot of the characters in AYNIK, making it a somewhat original story while still occurring in the same universe. And it was based off a relatively obscure manga even among anime fans.

Ghost In The Shell is the complete opposite. The anime and Manga is one of the most classic of Japanese pop culture and it basically requires the world be set in Japan if it's to feel authentic. And knowing what the director/producer is also known for, I highly doubt they won't fuck it up.

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Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#71: Jan 6th 2015 at 8:26:35 PM

Achaemenid expressed here my overall opinion-

"I don't mind the idea of an "American version" of GITS, complete with Scar Jo, so long as it actually adds an authentically American aspect to the story whilst still respecting its roots, as opposed to simply scrubbing all the Japanese-ness out of it and repackaging it in the USA to conform to a Hollywood suit's preconceptions about how many foreigners American audiences will tolerate on screen."

If the film is set in Japan, then having Scar Jo as the Major is obviously a terrible idea. However, if it's set in the United States, which I assume it is, there's no reason why the Major has to be Japanese (although there are of course Japanese Americans). As a slight corollary, wherever the setting is, if the Major is still called Kusanagi, then she definitely should not be played by a white person.

I'd figure that there will be a setting change, largely because the United States (IIRC now called the "American Empire" in the show's setting) is fucking evil in GITS and it would be kind of odd for an American film adaptation to keep that aspect. My guess would be that the Major and co. will either be FBI or CIA (or a combination thereof) or else some kind of Interpol Special Agent thingy.

Edit- The other thing that strikes me is that while this isn't a reason to "penalize" non-white actors, I'm iffy on the idea of preserving the Japanese setting and by extension casting when adapting anime/manga (Note- if the characters in adaptation are still supposed to be Japanese, then they should be played by Japanese people and not do a Dragon Ball Evolution).

The reason I feel this way is that Japanese media runs on Monochrome Casting- it's just with Japanese people as opposed to white people as tends to be the norm in American films (and even characters who aren't from Japan will often be part Japanese). I mean I'm not trying to argue against racial diversity in film- it's just that if the movie adaptation is diverse (including casting a Japanese actress in the lead), that would be a diversity absent in the source material.

[up] I disagree. Besides the other reasons for Japanese setting, it kind of feels Japanese in the way that Cyberpunk in general is a bit Japanese. The cast quote tons of Western philosophers and are film buffs (IIRC mostly French New Wave stuff). The Laughing Man takes inspiration from a Sallinger short story and his distinctive logo basically derives from the Starbucks logo (it's quite clever in the story). All in all it doesn't strike me as very much tied to Japanese culture.

What seems most distinctly Japanese are the politics, but that seems like something that an adaption would obviously change.

Edit2- Didn't like how I worded that- sounded off

Edit3- Monochrome Casting might not be the best trope to describe what I'm talking about with anime/manga. It's more the Tokyo Is the Center of the Universe idea- things are set in Japan (often Tokyo) and almost everyone is Japanese (understandably), due to the fact that the creator and audience is Japanese. It seems kind of odd to expect that a Hollywood adaptation of a Japanese work (in which Japanese setting isn't necessary) would cast exclusively Japanese people.

edited 6th Jan '15 8:59:48 PM by Hodor

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Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#72: Jan 6th 2015 at 8:32:22 PM

You know, for the last two pages I've been wondering who the blood-soaked Protestant Hell is Scar Jo. Only now I've worked out that's Scarlet Johansson's alias.

edited 6th Jan '15 8:32:55 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#73: Jan 7th 2015 at 8:52:11 AM

[up][up]truth be told, that's the only way I can see the film actually somewhat working-class i.e. completely distancing itself from the Japanese setting and being a wholly American enculutured one. My post several posts above slightly mocked this, but if the movie must be adapted for a western setting and to come across as anything more than racially insensitive, they need to not use the "romanticism of the east" to make its setting feel attractive. This is something most "White people in a Japanese Samurai Movie" completely fail at.

However, this enculturation is also not without its criticism either. As the world of Ghost was very much built upon the result of the country rising from the nuclear fallout of the H Bomb, there's no way to set the film in America and not have it seem somewhat insensitive to the original story. Additionally, largely what made Ghost work was that the role Japanese prefectures had, with each region being structurally different (Niihama is the population sphere and Iturup's regional location and international ambiguity has led it to become the center for crime) while still feeling interconnected. I'm not convinced setting the film in the US can properly adapt this regional separation with its States.

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Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#74: Jan 7th 2015 at 8:58:03 AM

Have to admit I'm rusty on my recollection of GITS (it's the only series I've watched in the "property").

I did recall that it occurs following a world war but didn't remember was nuclear. I did recall this nanotech "Japanese Miracle" thingy that somewhat repaired the environment afterward.

It's definitely a dystopian setting. In terms of adapting the setting, while it lacks the intellectual bent of GITS, the sadly Too Good to Last Almost Human actually is pretty close to an American version. Come to think of it, I think there was a Shout-Out in one episode- Gina Carano is this killer robot and at some point has on the Major's distinctive "underwear with jacket" outfit.

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Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#75: Jan 7th 2015 at 9:02:09 AM

Personally, the Wachowskis already did a fine job adapting GITS like movie for Western audiences already. Not the best, sure, but also certainly felt much less than a cash grab..... At least for the first film.

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