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The Biology, Agriculture, and Paleontology thread

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#1401: Jul 28th 2020 at 5:29:14 AM

how environmentally healthy?

Edited by alekos23 on Jul 28th 2020 at 3:30:38 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1402: Jul 28th 2020 at 10:45:57 AM

I was watching this QI video:

... and apparently, parrots don't mimic any other animals or sounds, only human speech.

That is really odd.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#1403: Jul 28th 2020 at 4:22:27 PM

Parrots have been seen teaching human words to other parrot species.

Remember that, for all intents and purposes, parrots and crows are around ape-level in terms of smarts.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1404: Jul 28th 2020 at 4:27:38 PM

I swear the crows around here teach their kids about traffic lights, railway signals and metro automatic messages.

There are a number of complicated roundabout/junctions around that they all seem to read too well to simply be playing it by rote or ear. Since they seem to be well aware of, say, weather-related road closure signage and the like.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jul 28th 2020 at 12:42:37 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1405: Jul 28th 2020 at 4:40:54 PM

[up][up] Yes, but the odd thing seems to be that they only imitate humans.

Perhaps it is something about human speech in particular that is attractive to them? Do parrots prefer complex calls?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1406: Jul 28th 2020 at 4:43:07 PM

[up]That.. or they actually appreciate the concept of words and scales.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#1407: Jul 28th 2020 at 5:11:59 PM

[up][up] Humans are directly interacting with them. Parrots are comunicative. They imitate the sounds of what is trying to comunicate with them.

Last year I found a magpie fledgling near my place; getting near it showed its parents were paying it a close eye, but, after getting between the chick and a dog, and getting into the road crossing to scare it back into the sidewalk and stop cars from running over it, the parents just stopped cawing whenever I got near their chick. They learned I was trying to help and thus wasn't a threat.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1408: Jul 28th 2020 at 5:24:15 PM

Crows are pretty smart. On the other hand, they also have very large brains for a bird. Their brain to body mass ratio is nearly the same as that for a chimp. They show very advanced abilities to solve certain types of problems (mostly spatial puzzles involving food or predators). Outside of that, though, I don't think they demonstrate the wide range and flexibility of social and other behaviors that the more advanced mammals do. In particular, they lack the brain mass to store information about large numbers of unique individuals. The birds with the largest brains and most complex behaviors (crows and parrots) live in small groups, and tend not to socialize beyond them (in contrast to, say, whales, each of whom may be acquainted with the unique sound signature of every other whale of their species on the planet, not just that of their own pod).

Here's a really nice review of some of the research comparing corvids to apes.

A nice review of the research relating bird brain size to sociality.

Fascinatingly, the brains of birds show a high degree of seasonal plasticity (flexibility of function that varies by season) and there is some evidence that they develop greater social intelligence during that time of the year when the form large flocks, or engage in cooperative breeding, and then their brains revert to other functions (food seeking, etc) at other times of the year. Imagine an alien whose sense of self and other-identity varies over time. They could be human-like during one part of their life cycle, and very different at other times.

I seem to remember a sci-fi story along those lines, but I cant remember the title. A team of human anthropologists go to live among a tribe of friendly, technologically primitive aliens, only to discover that they turn violent and feral during their mating season. Anyone know the story?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#1409: Jul 28th 2020 at 5:35:17 PM

Brain to body ratio is a flawed concept, when neural density is a thing. Bird brains are just more tightly packed together, and wired in a different way than mammalian brains to a degree. And going around saying "mammals are more advanced than birds", eh, is just bad understanding of evolution. Scala Naturae is outdated after all.

Remember, elephant brains have half as many neurons as human brains, despite being roughly 4 times more massive.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1410: Jul 29th 2020 at 12:54:55 AM

(Note though that in the human brain most cells are glia, not neurons. There is certainly the theory out there that the number of glial cells may be important for sapience)

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#1411: Jul 29th 2020 at 4:22:05 AM

In any brain, and the number increases as the brain size increases by sheer square-cube law, as they are needed to ensure basic neuron function. Astrocytes are basically a life support system for neurons, down to feeding them. Our astrocytes work harder than those of mice.

But yeah, active glia improves neuron function. Our magnified brain usage is not due to it being large and densily packed, but also from it working hard on a cellular level. There is a reason behind it eating so much, so to speak.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1412: Jul 29th 2020 at 5:34:27 AM

Brain size is important to some extent though, or else ours wouldn't be the size it is today.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#1413: Jul 29th 2020 at 6:09:08 AM

Oh, of course it is, but it isn't the only factor. A chimp brain weights 7% of what an elephant brain weights, but has 65% as many neurons as it does.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1414: Jul 30th 2020 at 12:31:03 PM

Neural connective complexity is probably the key mechanism, in terms of how many and how complex a set of neural patterns a brain is capable of, but that would be very hard to measure.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1415: Jul 30th 2020 at 12:54:41 PM

How about density and average length of neurons? Would that be an indication?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1416: Jul 30th 2020 at 1:33:15 PM

Bacteria live despite burial in seafloor mud for 100 million years: Ancient communities of bacteria jump to life with a fresh meal.

It's amazing how hardy these things can be. I guess that's the benefit of living on the border between biology and chemistry.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1417: Jul 30th 2020 at 1:42:28 PM

[up]<proceeds to look remarkably sketchy>

Edgelord joke goes here?

<ducks and rolls>

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1418: Jul 30th 2020 at 1:55:31 PM

... Did I say something wrong? grin

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1419: Jul 31st 2020 at 8:09:06 AM

"How about density and average length of neurons? Would that be an indication?"

Indirectly, yes. One presumes the reason why a brain has higher density and longer neurons is because there are more and more complex connection to accommodate.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1421: Aug 6th 2020 at 9:28:05 AM

Apparently monkeys can be taught the concept of money:

That's not the most amazing thing, however. The amazing thing is that one of the female monkeys promptly invented prostitution to earn money to buy herself a grape.

Talk about the oldest profession...

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#1422: Aug 17th 2020 at 7:19:32 AM

National Geographic article on removing dams from rivers to restore migratory fish.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Aug 17th 2020 at 7:20:56 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1424: Aug 17th 2020 at 3:40:20 PM

[up]That pun in the first sentence. Ouch. Ow. Eina.

A crime has been committed.

About the eye structure: cool beans. Kind of reiterates the fact that many trilos needed damned fine eyes.

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#1425: Aug 20th 2020 at 3:42:00 PM

Fossil find shows a 5-metre Middle Triassic ichtyosaur in the process of nomming a 4-metre thalattosaur.

(Yo dawg, I heard you like marine reptiles...)

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.

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