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Cleaning & Reorganizing Weaponry Tropes:

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ObsidianFire Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#251: Dec 8th 2014 at 7:41:11 PM

Can we change the thread title to show that we aren't working cleaning a specific trope, but reorganizing a bunch of tropes?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#252: Dec 8th 2014 at 8:24:53 PM

National Weapon is so restrictive it really should be 'the preferred or stereotypical weapon' and such.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#253: Dec 8th 2014 at 8:28:13 PM

I agree. That one is a bit more restrictive than it should be. Even the name sounds more restrictive than it is. Maybe that's why it's gotten such low usage.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#254: Dec 8th 2014 at 11:14:00 PM

Yeah, that trope can use some broadening.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#255: Dec 9th 2014 at 6:21:32 AM

The description of National Weapon is basically what I meant with Cultural Weapon. It's about weapons associated with a culture. And there culture is defined as anything between a gender and a group like an order or society.

I don't think the definition of that trope is bad, just maybe needs a bit of polish. The name is as mentioned too restrictive for the actual trope, though. Wanna guess what name I'd propose instead? wink

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#256: Dec 9th 2014 at 7:33:53 AM

I would replace most of the references to nation with culture because these cultures don't always have their own countries, but that doesn't mean they aren't distinct group. Little tweaks here and there.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DAN004 Chair Man from The 0th Dimension Since: Aug, 2010
Chair Man
#257: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:11:35 PM

Bump

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW
SolipSchism Since: Jun, 2014
BinaryStep Since: Dec, 2012
#260: Jan 24th 2015 at 10:45:57 AM

Here's a good one: Revolvers Are Just Better.

The Laconic says it's about revolvers being more effective than other guns. And yet most of the examples are just "[character] uses a revolver as a weapon".

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#261: Jan 24th 2015 at 10:55:36 AM

[up] The description there really does not help its case there with "Let's face it, revolvers are cool. "

Now I could see a Revolver user in a modern or cyberpunk settings, staying traditional or a sign of an old school cop, a plot point with Togusa in Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex. And a Rule of cool Revolver trope because that seriously is a thing as people seem to put revolvers on anything. But Revolvers being treated as better than other guns in accuracy, power, less subject to jamming at the cost of fire rate or loading time is a thing especially in videogames.

EDIT: Seriously why are there revolvers on Starships....

edited 24th Jan '15 11:17:51 AM by Memers

DAN004 Chair Man from The 0th Dimension Since: Aug, 2010
Chair Man
#262: Jan 24th 2015 at 4:43:19 PM

[up] Some of the examples in RAJB will fall into Gratuitous Revolver (or perhaps Gratuitous Revolver Design for things with revolver chambers)

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#263: Jan 25th 2015 at 11:36:53 AM

Yes, but an example can be in both tropes. But right now the trope is just revolvers used in fiction that are not Revolvers Are for Amateurs. Including every single western ever...

The way I see it there is

  • Revolvers Are Better, the up side of using them such as in video games they usually have more stopping power and such. As well as works that show/tell they are specifically better that other guns that are presented in the work.
  • Revolvers Are Worse, in works that have them having low reload time, fire rate and such and mention/show they are worse than modern guns and maybe getting replaced.
  • Old School Cop Revolver where the revolver is used to show that these cops are behind the times not using more modern weapons. IE Murtogh in Lethal Weapon and Togusa in Ghost In The Shell.
  • Gratuitous Revolver Revolvers put on swords and spaceships and such.
  • Revolver Ammo Count Error, failures in writing and such in which a person fires more shots than the revolver they have can hold.

Just having a work set between 1850 and up featuring someone with a revolver is just not a trope.

edited 25th Jan '15 4:21:56 PM by Memers

DAN004 Chair Man from The 0th Dimension Since: Aug, 2010
Chair Man
#264: Jan 25th 2015 at 12:13:15 PM

Now where would Nero (a dude with a custom made revolver) in Devil May Cry count? (I'll give you more details if you need)

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#265: Jan 25th 2015 at 4:19:38 PM

I have only played the first two games so I couldnt tell ya.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#266: Jan 26th 2015 at 7:19:48 AM

I think that part of the general issue with weaponry tropes it that we try to shoehorn every character with X weapon into a trope specifically for that weapon. When in general, there are very very few actually weapon specific tropes. Now, I will give you Old School Cop Revolver as a thing. The other ones seem to just be shoehorning though.

Every work is going to have weapons that are treated as decent and ones that suck. No, they're not always going to be the same weapon. We do not need two tropes for every weapon that says they work good in this world, and bad in this other one.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#267: Jan 26th 2015 at 2:09:20 PM

The more I think about this trope-cluster, the more I feel like it needs to be a medieval equivalent of Standard FPS Guns.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#268: Jan 26th 2015 at 3:43:36 PM

Sounds like a good idea to me. Definitely pare down on the ZCE's, if nothing else.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
ObsidianFire Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#269: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:44:21 PM

[up][up] Another vote for the creation of a Standard Medieval Weapons trope/catagory

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#270: Jan 26th 2015 at 9:10:25 PM

Sounds like an idea.

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MrL1193 Since: Apr, 2013
#271: Jan 26th 2015 at 9:21:30 PM

That may just be the best idea yet.

BinaryStep Since: Dec, 2012
#272: Jan 26th 2015 at 10:02:42 PM

Should I make a draft of it?

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#273: Jan 26th 2015 at 10:27:57 PM

Go for it.

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#274: Jan 26th 2015 at 10:56:02 PM

I think that part of the general issue with weaponry tropes it that we try to shoehorn every character with X weapon into a trope specifically for that weapon. When in general, there are very very few actually weapon specific tropes. Now, I will give you Old School Cop Revolver as a thing. The other ones seem to just be shoehorning though.

Every work is going to have weapons that are treated as decent and ones that suck. No, they're not always going to be the same weapon. We do not need two tropes for every weapon that says they work good in this world, and bad in this other one.

Not every example would fall under a trope yeah. As for the better or worse thing, Revolvers Are Better in of itself is more of a western / civil war trope, the worse aspect is more of a modern trope closely related to Old School Cop Revolver. As for if we need tropes for them I don't really know.

Gratuitous Revolver Cylinders is very much a thing considering that people toss them on swords and giant starships for no other reason aside from it looks cool.

edited 26th Jan '15 11:13:47 PM by Memers

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#275: Jan 27th 2015 at 12:03:10 AM

Even with the Gratuitous one though, there are lots of things that get stuck on random shit just to make things look cooler. I don't think we need a trope for every single one of them.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

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