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Websites cleanup (New Crowner August 4, 2017)

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billybobfred Cosine! from renamed to wingedcatgirl Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Jul 29th 2017 at 9:21:09 AM

hi i skipped some posts

Did a decision get made on what to do with FanFiction.Net and if so what is it?

More to the point, should YMMV.Fanfiction Dot Net be cut? There aren't any tropes on the main page, so it seems weird to have YMMV items.

she her hers hOI!!! i'm tempe
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Jul 30th 2017 at 7:26:45 AM

[up] FanFiction.Net wasn't on either of the previous two crowners. I looked through the thread and couldn't find the post you're referencing, but it could probably go on the third crowner.

[witty saying]
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
Jul 30th 2017 at 10:26:08 AM

Added it to the third crowner. Hollering for a hook.

SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Bern, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Jul 30th 2017 at 11:01:28 AM

I am wary of hooking crowners with such options. TV Tropes does discuss websites with a close nexus to storytelling and I am not convinced that the Fanfiction.net website should be on this topic at all.

Jul 30th 2017 at 11:11:29 AM

[up] Theoretically the thread-goers would notice that ff.net has no place in the crowner and will downvote the cut request to oblivion. No?

WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Jul 30th 2017 at 11:28:02 AM

Both Fanfiction Dot Net and Pixiv host works, but their tropes lists have problems and the pages themselves should reflect that they're hosts of works rather than works themselves. That is, I think they work better as indexes than works pages but they have a lot of problems already.

[up] Note that Ustream hosts videos, but it was cut for also being a stub page.

I don't think a site simply being related to writing is a safeguard against cutting.

All that said, Fanfiction Dot Net does have 425 wicks right now (and Pixiv has 119), and that — realistically speaking — will likely factor in to whether it ought to be cut in the first place, given manpower restrictions.

[witty saying]
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 30th 2017 at 6:04:54 PM

fanfiction.net and similar sites cannot be classified as creative works (nor documentary works or anything else like that). They are not creators, since the sites don't write things; their contributors do. They don't have any value as indexes, any more than you'd get value from an index of works hosted on Google Drive, or listed on IMDB. We can't trope them as fan communities because that's troping real people, which is forbidden.

So, if we take all that away, what value do the articles bring?

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SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Bern, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Jul 31st 2017 at 1:50:06 AM

Explaining what these sites are?

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 31st 2017 at 6:25:31 AM

And, again, why does that have value? TV Tropes is about creative works, not documenting every website.

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!
Irene Night Terrier from Friend Code: 1203-9265-8784 and 4571-1389-1915 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Night Terrier
Jul 31st 2017 at 7:35:25 AM

I don't see a need for the website either. People already can find out it exists in a non-important way without a page, as many fan fiction pages will easily link to that. Never mind people interested in fan fiction will find out via the forums too.

It only serves as an advertisement at best, and I agree it's not useful as an Index either. A site that hosts fanfiction isn't a useful note either. It just... serves no purpose. Like, at best one of the indexes for fan fiction could potentially list the name of sites they're generally hosted at, if it were to be mentioned beyond specific work pages at all. Knowing where to find to read them is fair. But the page itself isn't useful enough beyond that to justify having a page.

Omega Psycho Rangers Quest 64 Discord(very much safe for work)
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Aug 4th 2017 at 6:34:17 PM

Sorry for the delay; the new crowner's hooked.

Resize || Upgrades || My dA page
Aug 4th 2017 at 6:45:37 PM

Xanas LairWick and Inbounds are low.  seems to be troping the site itself, with entries like:

  • Berserk Button: Just don't mention Odd×Aelita shipping in the presence of our resident J×A queen.
  • Forum Pecking Order: Blue for Admins, green for Global Mods, red for regular Mods and pink for Trial Mods. Special ranks also come up with a small icon beneath the member's username.

... Although, that seems to be allowed, given that we have Fora Tropes?

... Same maybe-issue with YA Books Central, which is a book review site, and not actually a work that can be troped? ... And it only has 2 wicksnote  and 25 inbounds...

edited 4th Aug '17 6:53:13 PM by Malady

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Aug 5th 2017 at 8:44:34 AM

The low wick numbers can probably be fixed if there's no consensus to cut or if there's consensus to keep. But if you want to fix up the pages a bit while we're voting on them, I don't think that's a problem. Just be sure to bring up changes to the thread so people have the opportunity to change their votes if they want. Personally, I don't think Xanas Lair is worth keeping if it's just a discussion forum. If it hosts content, then maybe — like the role play stuff.

Regarding the crowner, I just want to say that the clock's up for everything that's currently on it a week from August 4 (which would be August 11). Just because nobody really voted on it until it was hooked, meaning people probably didn't see it until then.

[witty saying]
Aug 5th 2017 at 8:51:03 AM

While Xana's Lair does host forum RPs, the page itself is 100% ZCE and tropes user antics, not the RPs. As it stands, IMHO it can be cut with no loss to the wiki, and if someone will come along and start a tropes page for its RPs, all the better.

InsanityPrelude Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Aug 5th 2017 at 9:36:01 AM

Regarding FFN, I would note that nobody seems to have brought up Archive of Our Own yet. I don't think either page is off-mission exactly (they're the two biggest fanfic hosts, and we trope a lot of fanfic), but they might be in the wrong namespace; neither one actually has a trope list outside of their YMMV pages. They're acting more as Useful Notes and indexes right now.

Aug 5th 2017 at 10:24:31 AM

[up][up] - There were people elsewhere on the site about making indexes of the fanfics that are hosted on each site that we have pages of...

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Aug 5th 2017 at 10:26:43 AM

Archive of Our Own seems to be written as a Useful Note already, explaining some of the history of the Internet in relation to the site and fanfiction hosting sites in general (though still focused on AO 3). It looks pretty concise and focused in that regard.

I think that page could just be moved to the Useful Notes/ namespace, made a redirect, and have a significant number (if not all) of its wicks moved along with it. That said, I'm not sure about the FFN page.

A salient difference between the AO 3 and Fanfiction.Net pages is that the former lists an index of works hosted on the site (making it really easy to convert into an index or Useful Note-index) whereas the latter lists works people have made fanfics about, which means it'll take some more cleaning before it gets moved (if it gets moved).

[witty saying]
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Aug 5th 2017 at 1:23:33 PM

~Malady moved Website.Wyrmrest Accord to Roleplay.Wyrmrest Accord, which on its own I think is fine but it wasn't announced in the thread. Relevant ATT thread here.

Pinging because I don't know what else changed.

[witty saying]
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Aug 5th 2017 at 2:06:22 PM

[up][up]Not sure I agree about Archive Of Our Own - the page as currently written seems a tad on the gushy side for a Useful Note.

Aug 5th 2017 at 2:31:00 PM

[up][up] - Do you mean what changes to the page I made in the same edit as the move? None, I think.

Or what other Website related changes I've made? ... My edits

I've changed the namespaces of the wicks from Web Serial Novel, and Other Sites, moved Website.Starwalker to Literature.Starwalker, moved Website.Bleach Anime Dot Org into the Roleplay namespace, and I was slowly going through the Starwalker wicks to set them to Literature.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Aug 5th 2017 at 5:53:07 PM

Just to bring it up again, but Walfas hasn't had an edit since I mentioned it in the Touhou thread. I did edit one thing, but for some reason the edit seems to have disappeared.

Check out my fanfiction!
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Aug 10th 2017 at 8:41:23 AM

[up][up] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure of what was changed. A big problem for that page, imo, is that the tropes list is written as a character sheet. I mean, it's fine for most of the tropes in the list to be specific to a character (especially when there isn't a Characters/ page), but it shouldn't be written as a character sheet imo. Plus the description is still a stub. If you want to keep working on it, please do, and we can extend the "clock" for a while (especially since that's a pretty informal thing anyway and it's not like I'm a mod). (In fact, I'll ping you to make sure you hear about this because I really do hope you or somebody improves the page so we don't have to cut it. ~Tropers/Malady [EDIT: Ugh, I forgot the brackets. Double post incoming for the ping.])

[up] Yeah, I guess it can go on the crowner. I'll add Walfas to the crowner on Monday if nobody does so before hand. (It's kind of confusing enough since the dates on the current crowner entries are a little skewed, so to speak, due to the delay in hooking.)

----

Votes bump. Everything's pending, but I'll point out the ones that are closest to being resolved:

Might as well ping ~Raguigi (who created two of the pages that are in the crowner), though they don't seem to be active anymore.

edited 10th Aug '17 8:44:32 AM by WaterBlap

[witty saying]
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Aug 10th 2017 at 8:42:59 AM

Pinging ~Malady like I said I would in (and to) this post. Sorry for forgetting the formatting.

[down] Huh, y'learn something new every day. Sorry smile

edited 10th Aug '17 9:36:41 AM by WaterBlap

[witty saying]
Aug 10th 2017 at 9:15:05 AM

Well, it seems like you don't need the curly brackets, 'cause I got 2 P Ms telling me to go here, instead of just one.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!

Page Action: Other Sites 3
28th Jul '17 2:02:10 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Crowner to decide which pages about web sites are pertinent to our site.

Vote yes if you believe a page should be cut.

Vote no if you believe a page is acceptable for our site or could be salvaged or repurposed (give details in a post.)

Total posts: 411
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