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Evil Overlord List: could it be organized better?

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AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 1st 2014 at 9:36:42 AM

I noticed that TV Tropes has made many additions to this list of villainy. I think that it should be organized better.

Mod Note: these five pages have now been renamed to Just For Fun.TV Tropes Additional Evil Overlord Vows Cellblocks E-I

Here's what I think we should do:

  1. List/merge/redirect/rename all of the Vows and Lists made by TV Tropes editors under one banner. Done
  2. Change all bullet-point entries on these pages into numbers. Done
  3. Remove anything irrelevant to the subject matter. in progress

Does anyone else have any other suggestions for solutions?

edited 5th Sep '14 3:37:32 PM by AHI-3000

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Sep 1st 2014 at 9:43:05 AM

Merging the Additional Vows pages is a no go. They would go over the page size limits immediately.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 1st 2014 at 9:46:45 AM

Then perhaps we can rename the pages so that they all have similar titles, and split them further when necessary. What I was trying to say is that they should all be indexed under a single super-page.

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Sep 1st 2014 at 10:06:09 AM

I personally would have started this topic in Wiki Talk first - we haven't decided after all whether there is any problem worth fixing there. I'll ask for a move to that forum unless objections come up.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 1st 2014 at 10:10:25 AM

Sure, I don't mind having this moved.

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
Sep 1st 2014 at 1:20:46 PM

I agree, get those things out of Main. Clean-up would also be good if someone want to do it, but namespacing them correctly ought to be done either way.

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 1st 2014 at 1:48:29 PM

I've moved the thread.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 1st 2014 at 1:51:11 PM

The question that needs to be answered is "are the various subdivisions sufficiently different that having different naming conventions makes sense?". Personally, I don't see much difference, certainly not enough to make them sound like they're completely different things.

The only one that we CANNOT change is the original list, since it isn't ours, and part of the terms under which we're allowed to have it is that it not be altered.

I don't know if Cellblock A and Cellblock B were also taken for a source outside the wiki in their entirety. It sounds like they may have been. If that's the case then having them divided from the additions we've made over the years (the Tv Tropes Additional Vows pages) makes sense.

But changing the name of the TV Tropes Additional Vows pages to TV Tropes Cellblock C, D and so on, taking out the word "additional" and continuing the Celblock numbering from C rather than starting it over at A would work. Like so:

edited 1st Sep '14 1:59:52 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Sep 1st 2014 at 2:38:23 PM

Yes, the Cellblocks are taken from outside. Same website as the original Evil Overlord List, actually.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 1st 2014 at 5:00:48 PM

Yeah I think that the original Cellblocks are extensions of the original Evil Overlord List, and as such it should also remain unaltered.

So now we have more questions. Should the TV Tropes Additions start at A or C?

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 1st 2014 at 5:41:41 PM

If the original Cellblocks are from an outside source, I think we should start the TV Tropes Cellblocks at C to avoid confusing Cellblock A with TV Tropes Cellblock A

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 2nd 2014 at 7:38:24 AM

Okay, let's start them at C. Also, with the TV Tropes lists, we should replace all the bullet points with numbers, it would also make organization easier.

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 2nd 2014 at 8:31:02 AM

If we're going to do all that work (and I think it's a very good idea) let's cull out the duplicates while we're at it.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 2nd 2014 at 12:18:08 PM

Duplicate entries? I agree, some of those lists have become so long and unorganized that some of the same EOL rules and jokes have probably been repeated. We should also remove whatever isn't really relevant to the subject matter.

Also, how should the workload for this clean-up be divided? I can join in.

edited 2nd Sep '14 12:19:01 PM by AHI-3000

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Sep 2nd 2014 at 6:46:09 PM

It would be useful to have a workshop thread for it if possible and making sure to link here to show at least one mod is onboard for a good reason.

If the reorganizing and general clean up effort involves changing names of the entries a "related to" check followed by wick clean up would be needed after they are renamed. Removing the duplicate entries and generic clean up would just be bog standard grunt work of checking over the various entries.

Well that was easy. They are not really linked much else but to each other and a few other spots on the site.

edited 2nd Sep '14 7:17:04 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 3rd 2014 at 1:00:21 PM

Today I edited TV Tropes Additional Evil Overlord Vows Cellblock A. I changed all of the bullet points into numbers. There are at least 222 items on the list (not counting all the sub-items).

Besides what I've already stated, the lists need to be improved like this: There needs to be a lot more brevity. The original Evil Overlord Lists summarized all of the points quickly. But the guys writing the additions on this website seem to be writing this at the length of a novel. Anybody will be bored by long and semi-coherent rambling.

edited 3rd Sep '14 1:03:12 PM by AHI-3000

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
ObsidianFire Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Sep 3rd 2014 at 1:28:46 PM

I like the numbers idea. It makes it way easier to reference stuff.

I'll take a look and see if I can simplify/shorten some of it. Shortening points would probably help with the readability at any rate. Also, is it just me or can a lot of examples be cut so that just the main thesis is left? Cause that would help a lot.

edited 3rd Sep '14 1:39:27 PM by ObsidianFire

AHI-3000 Gorilla Guerrilla from California Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sep 3rd 2014 at 1:47:31 PM

I personally think that at least some of the content on the EOL additions should be cut out, although I think that it's something that the community as a whole should decide.

© 2014 — present AHI-3000. All rights reserved. ☺
ObsidianFire Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Sep 3rd 2014 at 1:50:29 PM

I'm seeing a lot of Example As Thesis going on on the TV Tropes Additional Evil Overlord Vows Cellblock A page. And some of the examples are so convoluted that they don't make sense. It's really a pain to read at this point.

Added numbering to TV Tropes Additional Evil Overlord Vows Cellblock B. Which thankfully has only 22 major items.

edited 3rd Sep '14 2:01:06 PM by ObsidianFire

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Lost in Space
Sep 3rd 2014 at 1:55:17 PM

I barely made it into the first cellblock of the expanded list before getting bored. Boring one's readers is not a recipe for success in writing.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ObsidianFire Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Sep 3rd 2014 at 2:00:25 PM

Doing the numbering for the other cellblocks.

Also, what's up with the weird pattern where Cellbocks A and C have 200+ main entries and Cellblocks B and D have less then 40 entries?

Edit: Finished adding numbering for Additional Evil Overlord List Cellblock A and Additional Evil Overlord List Cellblock B.

In addition, these pages suffer heavily from Conversation In The Main Page. Actually they read more like an Evil Overloard Forum Thread then a list. Will do the rest later as they're even longer then these.

edited 3rd Sep '14 3:03:13 PM by ObsidianFire

TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Sep 3rd 2014 at 3:26:30 PM

It sounds like a case of run away writing that needs to be tweaked to both make sense and cut down the clutter.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 3rd 2014 at 3:37:40 PM

Dear lord the Natter!I just looked at Additional Evil Overlord List Cellblock A and —- oh god.

These things aren't supposed to be freaking essays. The first one with 10 subpoints, detailing the whole plan? Completely misses the point of the list. The one about capes, with multiple third-level bullets? It sounds like someone with a case of Multiple Personality Disorder bad enough to render them non-functional.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Sep 3rd 2014 at 3:46:29 PM

Maddy: I am sorry I looked. That page needs a brush whacker. Nearly every single entry is affected with natter, word cruft, and bad bullet levels. The other pages are not any better.

So should we make this an official clean up project as it looks like the pages are in dire need of quality control and a fair bit of reading over the various entries. Some of the sub-point at a glance might be salvageable as individual points in their own right.

edited 3rd Sep '14 3:50:07 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"

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