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This thread is for discussing politics, political science, and other politics-related topics in a general, non-country/region-specific context. Do mind sensitive topics, especially controversial ones; I think we'd all rather the thread stay free of Flame Wars.

Please consult the following threads for country/region-specific politics (NOTE: The list is eternally non-comprehensive; it will be gradually updated whenever possible).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 25th 2025 at 9:51:19 AM

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#3251: Mar 8th 2021 at 11:31:13 AM

[up][up][up] Sex workers likely wouldn't want to do business with them because of their toxic attitudes, assuming they'd even get over the need to pay for the service.

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#3252: Mar 8th 2021 at 11:36:13 AM

[up] Oh, yeah, they tend to avoid anyone who self-identifies as an incel.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#3253: Mar 8th 2021 at 11:38:23 AM

[up][up]And incels view paying for sex as something that's humiliating.

It's not a solution to the problem however one looks at it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 8th 2021 at 11:38:51 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#3254: Mar 8th 2021 at 3:20:39 PM

Okay, this is getting rather off topic now.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#3255: Mar 9th 2021 at 6:57:43 AM

I’m bumping this up to the top to continue the communism debate from the media thread.

The legend has returned.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3256: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:07:52 AM

My personal thoughts is that Communism of the Leninist variety is a very destructive thing that left its influence on other strains of socialism, including some curious genuine Social Democrat/Leninist hybrids on the Global South.

Said this, they generally avoided the worst crimes of their right wing counterpart fascism. Emphasis on generally, because there were Leninist countries that did effectively commit ethnic cleansings and the likes.

Also, the USA trying to woo China ironically meant that USA more of less stopped caring about the worst Communist countries. This is part why nearly everyone except the hard right stopped caring about Cold War ideas on "communist tyranny", it was a big cultural cringe.

I also heard that weirdly, former East Germany has a biggest neo nazi issue that Western Germany? I find that to be fascinating.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 10:09:37 AM

Watch me destroying my country
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3257: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:15:45 AM

generally avoided the worst crimes of their right wing counterpart fascism

That's a bit of a low bar to clear, tbf. And as you said, they didn't always clear it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3258: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:18:54 AM

More of less, all of our modern values are based on "How much of NOT a Nazi are you?".

Plus, right wing crimes, even ones commited by "generic liberal capitalist autocracies" (ie Pinochet) feel more...disgusting because they go directly against the moral intuitions of Social liberalism.

You can argue there is a bias and in-group argument, and you honestly would be right, but that's the fact.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 10:20:12 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#3259: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:41:16 AM

That's a bit reductive. I don't at all identify by how much of a Nazi I am. Because, well, I'm not. And there's plenty of other things to identify by.

Not everything in politics needs to be about Nazis, or being anti-Nazi.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3260: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:44:37 AM

I said morals. A lot of ideas of what we consider right and bad comes from WW 2, a lot of Civil Rights protests were basically "hey, why we're acting like the nazis?"

That's why even the Right Wing had to create the "NAZIS ARE ACTUALLY LEFT WING!!" myth, or how the saner right wingers said "yeah, Nazis are right wing, but I am Libertarian right wing!"

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 10:45:34 AM

Watch me destroying my country
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#3261: Mar 9th 2021 at 8:28:35 AM

Well, it can't be denied that WW 2 has been drilled within the collective consciousness for years now, with only Vietnam coming close as the most portrayed war in media. So things related to it such as Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan will remain relevant because they have become part of the usonian myth building, which it exported to other countries through series and films.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3262: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:43:14 PM

Honestly, a lot of the issues of the right wing in the last decades steem from the fact that simply, right wing ideals aren't made for the post war world. There are way too many similitudes between even the center right and fascism to be able to sidestep them, regardless of the times where a center-right politician tries their best because is a very fragile balance that gets broken rather easily for the minimal mistake.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 7:49:42 AM

Watch me destroying my country
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#3263: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:51:08 PM

[up][up][up]That said it helps that the Nazi ideology a logical conclusion of the far-right especially the Confederate States of 'Muricca. All Nazis did was dial the bigotry up to 11 and shed any pretense of it being done for anything other than hatred of all other minorities (especially the Jewish).

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 9th 2021 at 4:51:54 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#3264: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:52:44 PM

[up][up] Please, not with this self-congratulatory treadmill to pseudo-eugenics again.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 9th 2021 at 7:53:18 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3265: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:54:37 PM

[up] Eh, if anything it makes me doubt myself and my possible role in democracy. I legit don't trust myself to decide because I am way too conservative for my own liking. Historians really wouldn't be nice on me, thought also wouldn't be particularly negative, at least.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 7:55:21 AM

Watch me destroying my country
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#3266: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:55:17 PM

That mindset is in itself is also a huge part of said problem.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 9th 2021 at 7:58:43 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3267: Mar 9th 2021 at 5:03:41 PM

Anyway, although I disagree with it, there is nothing particularly fascist about believing in less regulated markets, low taxes, a large army, traditional families, the fully human status of fetuses, traditional male and female gender roles, and suchlike. These beliefs may be considered wrong for a variety of reasons, but they aren't specifically hallmarks of the Nazi's.

Edited by DeMarquis on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:04:09 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3268: Mar 9th 2021 at 5:10:42 PM

[up] I mean that the idea of a rigid hierarchy is quite hard to compabilize with modern social liberal values. Some of them will obviously survive, but its very hard to make a coherent political theory over that.

Honestly Social Democracy seems to be a compromise so ideal that the fact that social democrats are not elected 100% of the time is somewhat of a failure of democracy (and honestly, is kinda suicidal for the center right). Obviously the choice has to be respected, but a lot of issues of the world would be solved if Social Democrats were in charge.

Seriously, even conservatives like Bismark knew that some safety nets were necessary to have a chance to counter the socialists.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:16:40 AM

Watch me destroying my country
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3269: Mar 9th 2021 at 5:17:05 PM

The Center Right (think Romney, or Mc Cain) doesn't believe in rigid hierarchy. And social liberal values survive perfectly well if the top dog believes in them (there are left wing hierarchies as rigid as the right wing ones).

That said, there is no "ideal" compromise. People from the left and right wing simply disagree on basic ways of perceiving the world—conservatives see the world outside their local community as dangerous and risky, and spontaneously feel uncomfortable with that. Progressives see the world outside their local communities as diverse and exciting, and spontaneously enjoy the stimulation it provides. No single social arrangement could ever satisfy both groups forever.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#3270: Mar 9th 2021 at 5:17:12 PM

Honestly Social Democracy seems to be a compromise so perfect that the fact that social democrats are not elected 100% of the time shows a lot of the issues of democracies.

That is literally the same principle contrarians and hipsters of all stripes use to complain about "the sheeple" or whatever their equivalent is. This is also the same argument utilized by vanguardists. "The only reason they don't vote in their self-interest is because the system is rigged, and sincere differences in opinion are a product of false consciousness. People have no agency in their decisions, or else they'd agree with me all the time."

A good counterargument I've found on the matter:

It will already be apparent that we find the idea that there is one true objective social reality, existing for all people, quite unacceptable. We are perfectly ready to accept that all people operate on the assumption that there is an objective social reality. What we reject is that this ‘reality’ is the same for everybody — or should be the same for everybody if only they weren’t falsely conscious.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:19:18 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3271: Mar 9th 2021 at 5:21:43 PM

Not really, Social Democracies are also quite flawed, so I understand the times where other choices won. I myself plan to vote for a centrist over the social democrats this year to be honest.

But in the other side, its very common that a downfall of the social democrats generally leads to a far right surge. Thought is usually correlation rather that causation

I really don't believe in a objetive easily finded Grand Good, at least not in politics. But I definitely believe in a objetive evil and that's generally the far right (and the far left, the times where a society is so screwed).

Its really hard to feel optimism on the choice of the people when the people shown support for people that is openly horrid on public TV. Obviously their choices have to be respected, but damn that it will hurt.

I generally vote as damage control, and that's...honestly depressing. Its bizarre seeing people voting for choices that will clearly make them the laughingstock of future generations.

I'm not even a social democrats, but is hard to not see how they're the ideal choice. Generally willing to keep things stable but also with rebellious edgy enough to still be supported for younger generations of activists.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:31:20 AM

Watch me destroying my country
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3272: Mar 9th 2021 at 6:43:40 PM

@Kazuya: If you are comfortable telling me, what country are you from?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#3274: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:10:00 PM

Yup, same country as me.

Bear in mind that Peru is stuck between a sword and hard place because right wing politicians are mostly populists who still have some power despite these last years being a steady grind against them between scandals and trails.

Whereas the left wing is either too connected to former terrorist groups for comfort, too Eurocentric to realice that the solutions there are not exactly translatable to our reality or are ethnocacerists, who are this weird mix of Commie-Nazis based on native Amerindian supremacy.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3275: Mar 9th 2021 at 7:40:09 PM

[up] Everything here is control damaged. I used to take comfort in the idea that the rest of the world would be better and we could copy them, but now...I am afraid that copying them might not be enough

Watch me destroying my country

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