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acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#226: Aug 29th 2014 at 4:37:57 PM

[up]The history is actually really useful.

It seems to point to, and correct me if i'm wrong, that the original Action Girl trope was essentially The Tough Chick from the narrowed propositions. or at least at the nexus of The Tough Chick (spunky, attitude is important) and Can Keep Up With The Boys (takes down bad guys, competency is important)

edited 29th Aug '14 4:45:04 PM by acrobox

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#227: Sep 1st 2014 at 11:57:45 PM

So uh, crowners been called. Course of action (girl) folks?

edited 1st Sep '14 11:57:55 PM by acrobox

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#228: Sep 2nd 2014 at 2:19:56 PM

Well, I'd guess the best option would be to sandbox a tweaked description and see what people think. While I'd prefer to leave it to someone else (part avoiding conflict of interest, part you guys have a better sense of what you want the supertrope to be than I do), I can do it if no one else steps up, or suggests an alternative way to proceed.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#229: Sep 2nd 2014 at 9:15:00 PM

You can kick it off, I'll make some edits after

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#230: Sep 5th 2014 at 12:56:22 PM

An early draft is now on the sandbox page.

(I don't expect it to survive intact.) tongue

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#231: Sep 5th 2014 at 1:53:42 PM

A "real" action girl could do it. [lol]

rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#232: Sep 5th 2014 at 1:55:09 PM

I think it looks really good.

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#233: Sep 5th 2014 at 4:22:25 PM

Yeah it looks good. But we should make sure that people know to use the subtropes instead of overlinking to the super trope. Either at the beginning to make sure its seen, or at the bottom in bold.

edited 5th Sep '14 4:22:40 PM by acrobox

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#234: Sep 5th 2014 at 5:16:16 PM

Made some changes to the first paragraph of the proposed description, but other than that it looks good to me.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#236: Sep 6th 2014 at 6:24:53 AM

Another [tup], though I wonder about the line about example-linking. Didn't the agreed course of action involve moving most of the examples rather than all of them?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#237: Sep 6th 2014 at 6:34:40 AM

Why not remove all of them?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#238: Sep 6th 2014 at 7:15:33 AM

Removing or moving all examples needs a very strong argument that hasn't been made.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#239: Sep 6th 2014 at 8:17:06 AM

I figure people are going to still link examples to the supertrope anyway and that one line isnt going to be much of a deterrent. But for as much of a deterrent to keep it clean it should stay there.

Maybe 'please consider linking examples' instead of the just 'please link examples'

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#240: Sep 6th 2014 at 8:28:58 AM

I rewrote that line, since we aren't trying to shoehorn all examples of Action Girl into subtropes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#242: Sep 6th 2014 at 9:30:41 AM

I tweaked it to be two sentences, since that reads better.

On the other hand, I completely disagree with acrobox's "streamlining" changes, since that makes it sound (to me, at least) less neutral on the subject. (Given how controversial sexism in fiction is, being fairly neutral is critical here.) Permission to revert?

edited 6th Sep '14 9:36:12 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#243: Sep 6th 2014 at 9:39:37 AM

They look alright to me. We don't need to harp on "the roots of this trope are in sexist expectations And That's Terrible". We still have a mention of the inherent Double Standard both past and present — it's not like we're glossing over the whole subject.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#244: Sep 6th 2014 at 9:43:29 AM

Jovian, I think you misread the changes he made, since that's not an issue that's present in either version.

edited 6th Sep '14 9:48:51 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#245: Sep 6th 2014 at 10:25:38 AM

We do have an Analysis subpage for the trope. If anything being excised fits there, we should transplant accordingly, right?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#246: Sep 6th 2014 at 10:38:16 AM

[up][up]The it'd be helpful to explain what I missed rather than just telling me I missed it and leaving it at that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#247: Sep 6th 2014 at 8:25:48 PM

what specifically do you feel i should not have cut

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#248: Sep 6th 2014 at 9:10:42 PM

My main issue is the change you made to the last sentence of the second paragraph. The way I originally wrote it was with the tone of cautious optimism on the matter, which I think is the tone least likely to cause problems. Your change moved it a little too far away from that for my liking.

I'm a bit unsure on the change to the third paragraph as well (why wouldn't we indicate that society moves on and these concepts evolve), but after some thought I think I can live with that.

I have no problems with the other changes you made.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#249: Sep 7th 2014 at 5:33:31 AM

For the record, the last sentence of the second paragraph was edited from this

Society has progressed since then and Action Girls are popular and more common than ever, but in some media and cultures girls still haven't caught up with boys when it comes to expectations, hence the continued existence of this trope.
to this
Now Action Girls are popular and more common than ever, but generally girls still aren't as expected to be part of the action as guys are, hence the continued existence of this trope.

I'm not seeing any issues. It removes the mention of "progression" and "catching up" — but like I said in my earlier post, the description still acknowledges that there's a Double Standard inherent in the trope, and this particular sentence still mentions that that double standard hasn't gone away entirely (while being shorter and simpler, which is good).

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#250: Sep 7th 2014 at 6:03:54 AM

There's a big difference between something "generally" being the case, and something being the case "in some media and cultures". And the difference in length between the two wordings is minimal, FYI.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

PageAction: FixActionGirl
20th Aug '14 7:07:10 PM

Crown Description:

Action Girl is filled with Zero Context Examples. The definition is bloated and nebulous.

Total posts: 367
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