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Institutionalized Racism, Discrimination, and Ethnic Cleansing Worldwide

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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#1: Aug 13th 2014 at 12:42:44 PM

This thread is for discussing cases of Institutionalized Discrimination, specifically the kind that relates to religion or ethnicity, unless there's already a thread for it here, like the many threads for sexism and the Israel-Palestine thread covering oppression of groups by Israeli and Palestinian forces (but not, say, the oppression of Palestinians by other States).

Special attention will be directed to cases of Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing, and Apartheid-like discrimination, as well as the actions that are already taken and the currently available options to remedy, alleviate or abolish it. This might include discussing the causes for the current Status Quo, and why it remains such.

We will focus on recent and current examples. No Andrew Jackson, no Armenian Genocide. Examples should all be from the XXI-st century. Reaching out to The '90s is stretching it.

This is not an Oppression Olympics thread. The answer to the question "Why are you talking about that group? This group has big problems too!" is "Sure, let's talk about this group too, show us, what have we got here?"

Let's start with these:

Everyone, pick the example that interests you the most, and let's get this thread started.

edited 14th Aug '14 2:58:07 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#2: Aug 13th 2014 at 2:24:11 PM

OK, not only is this a Link-Discuss OP, what you've basically started is effectively "Oppression Olympics: The Thread".

"Yup. That tasted purple."
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#3: Aug 18th 2014 at 4:36:31 PM

With the modified OP, let's give this one a go.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#4: Aug 18th 2014 at 5:59:19 PM

Hmm Kinda hard to pick one thing which is kind of disturbing in and of itself.

I think I want to start with the regular efforts by assorted militias in Somalia to kill the Bantu population in the Jubba valley. From about 1994-2007 there have been reports of attacks on them by various militia groups. So far it does not appear the actions of any specific state or government agency. I am not sure if it is somehow related to a religious belief, political belief, or if it is just because they are there and the militias just want them gone.

Right now I am leaning towards a combination of religious motivations coupled with a desire to seize the lands.

edited 18th Aug '14 6:00:01 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#5: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:21:09 PM

[up]Uh. Religion may be in there. But, that's an old tribal-based feud you're talking about. <_<

Rule One of African politics: What tribe are you?

Rule Two: What clan and family?

Rule Three: Where are your ancestors buried and with what practice?

These are in relative order of importance. Some people swap Rule Three into One's slot, though. It's just a sneakier way of going "what tribe?". tongue

edited 18th Aug '14 6:24:48 PM by Euodiachloris

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#6: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:37:41 PM

Part of the reason I am leaning towards religion in a broad sense is there is no shortage of extremist religion aligned militias in Somalia who have no trouble with splattering people whole sale. Though you do have a good point with the constant tribal conflict being a very common theme in these actions. It may very well be a mix of the three making it even uglier. Tribal warfare mated with violent religious zeal is not something pleasant.

Who watches the watchmen?
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#7: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:38:23 PM

I think it's definitely a mix of land grab & tibalism/ religious extremism. It's Somalia. Everyone is looking to grab some land and set-up his own feud right now.

edited 18th Aug '14 6:39:22 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#8: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:42:33 PM

The lack of any real centralized authority capable of acting even on a small scale certainly compounds the problems. The whole build your fiefdom attitude of the various warlords is likely also piling on just more misery.

My question is why the Bantu specifically? What sort of beef do the various other tribes have with them or has that been long forgotten and it is just we hate you, you die now?

Who watches the watchmen?
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#9: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:44:39 PM

The Bantu kicked some other tribes out and did the whole land grab thing some time ago. Maybe it's payback.

Oh really when?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#10: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:49:07 PM

So it is more of the vicious circle kind of thing then.

Who watches the watchmen?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#11: Aug 18th 2014 at 6:52:06 PM

[up]Teuf, it's all got to do with the Great Migration. It didn't just push south towards Southern Africa, but north, too... albeit, not that successfully. Mainly because north meant "people with quite a bit of technology and a population base". South meant "Bushmen and others dying of what the Portuguese bring from Europe and America and what we bring from out the Congo Basin" — in other words "relatively easy pickings".

All hell broke loose as a result... for a good 800 years of roil and toil for the latter waves.

Why do you think sub-Saharan African kingdoms were generally unstable when Europeans came? They'd already gone through tonnes of turbulence and were just about settling into something like long-term order. Then *boom*. Forget that idea. tongue

Eurasia: not the only one to have hordes upending the stakes.

edited 18th Aug '14 7:45:21 PM by Euodiachloris

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#12: Aug 18th 2014 at 7:25:17 PM

Oh wonderful a multi-century grudge. So yeah a long running vicious circle grudge that has a few centuries of history buried in it.

Who watches the watchmen?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#13: Aug 18th 2014 at 7:49:17 PM

[up]It's even more amusing: earlier waves had to try fending off new ones from those who shared base ancestry and languages... and earned grudges that way, too. Even when they got pushed to other places. <_<

This is why Tribe Is Big. And, how long you can trace your ancestors from where (and which kingdoms they founded and lost — and who gets blamed).

Africa has always been just as politically and socially active as anywhere else. <shrugs> So, yeah: religion can be a part of what's going down. But... it'll only ever be a part of it.

edited 18th Aug '14 7:50:01 PM by Euodiachloris

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#14: Aug 18th 2014 at 7:52:08 PM

[up][up] Nothing new here.

edited 18th Aug '14 7:52:17 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#15: Aug 18th 2014 at 8:15:30 PM

Interesting and a bit depressing.

So because of history Tribe, origins, history, and family ties to said tribe are king regardless of pretty much all other factors then.

Who watches the watchmen?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#16: Aug 19th 2014 at 3:21:50 AM

Well, that's the default human behaviour, really. You and your kin, against the world. People who are not your kin might as well be another species as far as you're concerned.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#17: Aug 19th 2014 at 10:54:54 AM

Some of my favorite quotes from Hotel Rwanda:

Paul Rusesabagina: I am glad that you have shot this footage and that the world will see it. It is the only way we have a chance that people might intervene. Jack: Yeah and if no one intervenes, is it still a good thing to show? Paul Rusesabagina: How can they not intervene when they witness such atrocities? Jack: I think if people see this footage they'll say, "oh my God that's horrible," and then go on eating their dinners. [pause] Jack: What the hell do I know?

Jack: [after seeing a Tutsi and a Hutu sitting together] They could be twins!

[about the Tutsi] Paul Rusesabagina: You cannot seriously think that you can kill them all. George Rutaganda: And why not? We are halfway there already.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#18: Aug 19th 2014 at 2:33:13 PM

I've always wondered, regarding the Rwandan Genocide, what happened to the Hutu/Tutsi children? Were they given a chance at "redemption" by turning their back & rejecting their Tutsi parentage? Or they were killed along with the rest for being "half-breeds" ?

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#19: Aug 19th 2014 at 2:50:19 PM

From what I remember their ethnic group was counted by patrilineal descent, but I don't think they would've been that interested in checking.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#20: Aug 19th 2014 at 9:19:10 PM

Perfect Example, the Paul Rusesabagina that Gabrael quoted is half Tutsi by his mother.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#21: Aug 23rd 2014 at 2:16:10 PM

The Rohingya in Burma are getting f'd up...

[up]I just love pronouncing that name. Paul RRRRRRusssesssabaGIna!

edited 23rd Aug '14 2:17:28 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
PhilippeO Since: Oct, 2010
#22: Aug 24th 2014 at 11:06:08 PM

a lot of Institutionalized Discrimination seems happen because the right of immigrant and immigrant children is not widely accepted. The most severe ones is Rohingya in Burma, overseas chinese in Southeast Asia, Roma (Gypsy ) in Balkans. while not as severe Hispanic in USA, Turks in Germany, and Africans in Europe also suffer discrimination. It also shows that several generation didn't remove immigrant stigma, Rohingya and Chinese already settled for more than 100 years and still not fully accepted, Roma already in Balkans for almost 1000 years. Outside of American continent, jus soli is very rare, most country practice jus sanguinis which make even second and third generation immigrant still non-citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jus_soli_world.svg

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#23: Sep 10th 2014 at 7:49:20 PM

So what can you folks tell me about the Pygmies?

In various reading and a PM conversation African views on racism and tribalism are deeply intertwined. What I could find is the Pygmy in the Congo are caught between the rock and the hard place. They are subject to systematic extermination and removal from both sides in the Congo conflict and reportedly are victims of cannibalism supposedly in the belief it grants some benefits to the consumers. Neither side has any real restrictions against it because the Pygmy are considered sub-human by them.

Who watches the watchmen?
Surenity Since: Aug, 2009
#24: Sep 10th 2014 at 8:25:05 PM

While there isn't much of an institution in place to racially discriminate them, the Yazidis have it pretty bad right now against the Islamic State, seeking to commit genocide against them.

My tropes launched: https://surenity2.blogspot.com/2021/02/my-tropes-on-tv-tropes.html
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#25: Sep 10th 2014 at 8:37:15 PM

In 2003, Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti pygmies, told the UN's Indigenous People's Forum that during the Congo Civil War, his people were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. In neighbouring North Kivu province there has been cannibalism by a group known as Les Effaceurs ("the erasers") who wanted to clear the land of people to open it up for mineral exploitation.[21] Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say their flesh can confer magical powers.[22] Makelo asked the UN Security Council to recognise cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.[23]

According to Minority Rights Group International there is extensive evidence of mass killings, cannibalism and rape of Pygmies and they have urged the International Criminal Court to investigate a campaign of extermination against pygmies. Although they have been targeted by virtually all the armed groups, much of the violence against Pygmies is attributed to the rebel group, the Movement for the Liberation of Congo, which is part of the transitional government and still controls much of the north, and their allies.[24]

The Pygmy population was also a target of the Interahamwe during the 1994 Rwandan Genocide. Of the 30,000 Pygmies in Rwanda, an estimated 10,000 were killed and another 10,000 were displaced. They have been described as "forgotten victims" of the genocide.[25] The current Rwandan Pygmy population is about 33,000, and is reportedly declining.[26]

By one estimate, the total number of Pygmies killed in the civil wars in Congo and Rwanda is 70,000.[25]

Holy shit, talk about dying peoples...

The cannibalism bits really freak me out.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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