The three Khans are a unique phenomenon, in that you had two nepotism recipients and one outsider who managed to network with the very top of the food chain who came into the industry within, I think, half a decade of each other, all to some extent as romantic heroes (people forget this about Aamir and Salman because of what they've done since, but they were doing the cutesy loverboy thing well before Shahrukh) and who had established themselves so deeply by the end of the 90s that no controversies or bad spells could keep them down for long. They are on top not just because they are popular, but because they understand both the tastes of film consumers and the politics of the industry, while the tier of stars just beneath them (including Saif) in the same demographic muddle along on determination, industry goodwill, and hits that come just frequently enough to keep people interested in financing their movies. They're probably going to stick to lead roles as long as they possibly can-the most successful of the 60s/70s generation of male stars-Amitabh, Dharmendra, Rishi-were playing conventional lead roles well into the 90s, when Amitabh and Dharmendra were considerably older than the Khans/Ajay/Akshay are now. Cosmetic surgery, liposuction, and gaussian blur technology have only improved in the meantime.
We're a long ways from finding out which of the young guys have the savvy to stay in the game. At one time, I would have said that Ranbir (whom I find annoying onscreen but is undeniably talented) really had it together and understood the business pretty well, but the failure of Besharam and this logjam where he has four unfinished projects and nothing to release in 2014 (Bombay Velvet's been delayed til next year) has me questioning that judgment. Ranveer ditched Shuddhi in favor of Bajirao Mastani only after formally committing to Shuddhi, which is understandable at a couple of levels but is also going to haunt him in future negotiations. Haven't seen too much of the newer guys (and don't particularly like what I have), but here's my quickdraw impressions of them, based on what I've read and the snippets I've seen of their work.
Ayushmann: boring screen presence, snooty hipster attitude, not particularly good-looking. Successful debut followed by a couple of flops. He has a somewhat interesting biopic coming up, but if that doesn't work I don't know how far he'll go.
Sushant Singh Rajput: cute, good dancer, I'm told a good actor also. Yash Raj Films is betting pretty heavily on him-for me he doesn't really have quite enough screen presence in what I've seen of him, and comes off as a bit smug IMO, but as long as YRF is on his side, he'll get by.
Arjun Kapoor: haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on his acting, but he has a compelling presence in the promos I've seen of him combined with utter cluelessness about what to do in a song and dance number. I would peg him as a hairier, more macho Saif Ali Khan-fangirl magnet and nepotism recipient who's dynamite in the right roles and kind of boring out of them, probably going to have a rather messy personal life. (Has a reputation as a womanizer already, and I dunno, he just seems like the quietly neurotic type).
Imran Khan: if his next film doesn't work, probably going to turn director, I think. It's what he originally trained for.
Vidyut Jamwal: great martial artist, potentially decent actor, striking looks and screen presence. Seems determined to do that thing John Abraham did in the 00s of knocking about the industry doing offbeat stuff while letting his work as a model pay the bills. It's his life, but it seems a waste, especially since he only has like four years until he turns forty.
Varun Dhawan: He's conventionally attractive in kind of the same boyish way that Aamir was 25 years ago, with a sassy/smarmy vibe reminiscent of Young!Salman and Young!Shahrukh. Probably the best dancer in his age bracket, and has a particularly strong following among the working class people who keeps Salman busy and his useless family fed. He's done well for himself so far, and with his (creepy-seeming but successful) director dad to advise him on lowbrow movies for working class people and Karan Johar to advise him on middlebrow, middle class movies he seems well positioned. He's trying for some darker, artier roles and I'm not sure he's equipped for those, but we'll see.
Sidharth Malhotra: I find him kind of blandly likable, about on par with Imran Khan but dumber-seeming. He seemed to do brooding pretty well in the bits of Ek Villain that I saw, and I'm told he's athletic. He has Bhavesh Joshi, a "regular joe turns Batman-esque vigilante" lined up with a rather artsy director, and the Tom Hardy role in the Warrior remake (currently called Brothers). He has a decent female fanbase due to his looks, and Ek Villain, Bhavesh Joshi, and Brothers all seem like a reasonable attempt to strengthen his male fanbase without driving the ladies away. In the long run, I would peg him as a potential analogue to Shashi Kapoor-that nice, photogenic bloke who's fairly popular, stays busy, does a lot of multi-starrers, but whose solo starrers are not as well-known.
Aditya Roy Kapoor: good actor, although his characters tend to be snotty and full of themselves. His elder brother is one of the most powerful men in the industry, so short of some really mindblowing and unlikely scandal, Aditya's going to stay busy no matter what.
Tiger Shroff: awesome stage name, likably dorky guy with impressive fighting and dancing skills. He reminds me of Akshay Kumar circa the very early 90s-photogenic martial artist with a kind of clueless, puppyish affability, knows how to rock weird clothes and silly dance numbers and not much else. But what has kept Akshay in the industry so long is his brutal work ethic, which led to him making a ton of movies and eventually learning a lot of the things he didn't start out knowing. I don't know if Tiger is that driven (actually, that's my main cause for skepticism about a lot of these young guys born into film families) or adaptable enough to learn what he needs to know with less repetition.
I'd like to point out that while Amitabh, Rishi et al continued into the 90s, their films during that time were just....baaaad, even if one got the occassional Shahenshah or some such...
In fact, thats why I think the Khans are going to step out of the limelight soon...their in the same point of their careers (20 years +) now that the 60s/70s guys were in the 90s. As for age, Amitabh was in his late 40s in the 90s (same as the Khans now), Rishi was younger by a whole decade, and Dharmendra had been outshown by Sunny by the 80s, let alone the 90s. So all the guys now have going for them is surgery and it's obvious enough when they do that its distracting.
On Ranbir, eh, nobody is perfect. If it becomes a pattern or lasts longer than this year, then you might be on to something, but no actor in B-wood, legend or not, has had a perfect score.
With you on Ayushmann, from what little I've seen of him. He'll probably fade away on acting and fall back on his playback singing, which is better than his screen presence at least.
Sushant Singh Rajput - Have never seen his movies, only saw his stint on Jhalak, so I can only go from that. I know what you mean by smug, but I think thats just his unfortunate smirk he uses to hide his not-perfect (but not bad) teeth. He actually comes off as the most humble of the new guys (though that might not be saying much).
Arjun Kapoor - He's got a famous father and uncles, but from what I hear, they were estranged thanks to his father divorcing his mother to marry Sridevi. Sure, he's getting looks from the industry because of his famous family (not to mention his Anilesque hair), but I don't think he has their active support the way, say his cousin Sonam does. But now I hear from you both fairly good reviews, I'm more inclined to check out his movies...which one would either of you recommend?
Vidyut - I agree, but I'd add that as a villain or supporting character actor, he might have better luck methinks.
Imran Khan - Surprised he hasn't tried already...
Varun & Siddarth - Have seen nothing of them, only hear what fangirls have to say, so all that is news to me. Interesting though.
Aditya Roy Kapoor - He'll be given a long leash, but if Randhir Kapoor, despite having Raj Kapoor backing him, can get shitcanned by the industry, so can this guy if need be. Agreed with you otherwise. Curious about his other brother though. Only seen him in trailers, so I have no idea how good or bad of a comic actor he is. Would be interesting if they ended up competing for big bro's good graces...
Tiger Shroff - I intend to watch his debut film at some point. But I agree based on what little I've seen. However, just because he's an industry son doesn't mean he won't work hard. Ranbir does, after all. Either way, he won't be given much of a leash since Jackie isn't all that powerful in the industry anymore.
Hmm...I realize with our uber-posts, the non-Bollywood people who might be following this thread might be a bit lost.
For that, I apologize, since I started it. <blush>
EDIT-
Hey quag, would you be interested on a B-wood movie about the liberation of Goa, or would than hurt your Portuguese pride?
edited 24th Aug '14 9:21:14 PM by FFShinra
No need to apologize. All these recent posts are very informative (and they make it seem to me that Bollywood is far more competitive within its system than Hollywood).
As for the movie about the liberation of Goa, what's it called?
Btw, my pride won't be hurt at all.
It was a stupid decision to hold on to Goa for so long into the 20th century, in my opinion, so I have no problem with the history between our two nations.
edited 24th Aug '14 10:03:58 PM by Quag15
It's called Pukar (1983). There is also a Pukar from 2000 starring Anil Kapoor and Madhuri Dixit that is completely different, though also recommendable. As to your pride, I figured, but I had to tease anyway.
And yeah, Bollywood is when you take the Hollywood Studio System from the Golden Age and then turn it Up To Eleven.
EDIT-
Glad you don't mind, though if you need any clarification on the points raised in those posts, feel free to ask.
edited 24th Aug '14 10:59:03 PM by FFShinra
Resident Bollywood Nerd
@Shinra: I'm interested to know too, as an ethnic Goan.
EDIT:
Thanks, I'll check it out.
I think the more arty type of Bollywood also deserves a mention, especially considering that most of India's best cinema seems to come from there. Actors like Rajkummar Rao and Nawazuddin Siddiqui have really proven their acting chops, even if they don't make as much money as your major stars.
It's essentially Oscar Bait, but it's good movies, and nobody minds that.
edited 25th Aug '14 1:31:08 AM by arcanephoenix
Arjun's father was going to co-produce Tevar (Arjun's next solo vehicle) but had to bow out due to financial setbacks and let Sanjay Kapoor (Boney's and Anil's less well-known brother) take care of it. Boney and Arjun are not close, but Arjun is his only son, in a culture where that counts for a lot, and my impression was that they'd gotten friendlier since the mother/ex-wife's death. I haven't seen too much of Arjun, but the general feeling seems to be that Aurangzeb is his best acting performance.
For Tiger, my point was more that someone who starts with such a limited toolkit has to work twice as anyone else to make up for it, and although he seems like a levelheaded, industrious kind of guy, I don't know if he's *that* industrious. If that makes any sense. And fair enough on Ranbir-it just surprised me because he had struck me as smart enough not to over extend himself.
With regard to the fortysomethings, I don't think Bollywood has ever had a scenario where they had this many moderately to very successful leading men all about to age out of conventional lead roles this close together, and I'm kind of curious if they, collectively, find a way to forge some category of unconventional lead roles to inhabit.
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That may be true, about the forty (almost fifty)-somethings, but for it to be unconventional, they have to actually BE unconventional (and to your point, thats how Aamir has managed to keep on top these last ten years). However, SRK doesn't do it, despite having success in Chak De India. Saif seemed to be on that path in the early 2000s (after years of failing at being a hero), but has since degenerated and can only seem to get work from his own production company. Ajay Devgn and Salman Khan have the Rajni-style cinema cornered in the North, so they certainly fit that mold, but they also can never leave, remaking the same film over and over again in Salman's case and flopping at everything else in Ajay's case. Akshay Kumar has great strength in drama, but his obsession with comedy (which he also seems to keep remaking) is keeping me away from him.
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Didn't think I'd have to make any suggestions to you.
Oh, I'm not gonna say that they're going to succeed in finding a new ecological niche, but I've seen some signs that they're trying for it. Salman's next two films are romantic/family dramas. Shahrukh's next after Happy New Year is with the Baand Baaja Bharat director and sounds kind of unconventional. Aamir, as you say, is going to keep trying for different. Not gonna deny where Saif and Ajay are at; Saif's real problem I think is that his heart is with experimental cinema but he seems to have Downton Abbey Syndrome-he inherited a large, rundown palace from his dad and his wife and mother are determing to spend Saif's money to restore it. Which means that he's got to keep chasing paychecks.
Akshay does this thing every decade where he starts at the bottom of the barrel, and spends the first half of the decade trying different stuff-some of it good, alot of it not-gradually finding things that work, and then getting some kind of brief career peak followed by stagnation as he starts exclusively chasing one particular genre that he thinks is the golden ticket. Right now he's in the trying different things out phase; 2015's going to be long on dramatic roles for him, 2016 maybe less so. I personally like some of his comedies, but he's definitely made way too many of them, and it's a hangover from his last hit+stagnation cycle, when they were seen as *the* thing that reliably worked for him.
Resident Bollywood Nerd
My picks:
- Sholay: The Bollywood Fountain of Memes and eternal classic.
- Dilwale Dulhaniya Le Jayenge: The Bollywood romantic comedy Trope Codifier.
- Zanjeer
- Deewar
- Don
- Andaaz Apna Apna: Rather well-written comedy, if a bit untranslatable
- Kuch Kuch Hota Hai: The other Bollywood romantic comedy Trope Codifier
- Satya: One of the best gangster films I have seen
- Bombay Boyz: Unusual example, but still rather fun.
- Agneepath
Otherwise I agree with that list (well, cept for Andaz Apna Apna, but only because it's a tad too zany as something to show a noob. maybe once they're a bit more seasoned).
That said, no Anil or Salman love?
Seems like a fair list. I personally couldn't finish KKHH or DDLJ; it took 3KG, Rab Ne Bana de Jodi and Om shanti Om to get SRK into my good graces. I found Zanjeer kind of annoying, but if you're up on your spaghetti westerns it's a logical companion to Sholay, both because of Amitabh/Jaya and because of the vague similarities to Death Rides a Horse. Haathi Mere Sathi with Rajesh Khanna is interesting as an Indian approach to "tragic animal friend" stories.
I like HAHK (only early Salman film I've seen) but it's very preachy about traditional values, which people are either going to dislike on general principle or find interesting as a way of learning about other people's culture. Beta with Anil and Madhuri has kind of an interesting fairy tale vibe for people who don't find the comic relief characters and occasional values dissonance too annoying.
I've had good luck with Parvarish (the late 70s movie with Amitabh and Vinod Khanna) with newbies. The Khiladi movies from the 90s are mostly a fountain of values dissonance, So Bad, It's Good-ness, and general WT Forkery but the very first one (just called Khiladi) is a cheesey but entertaining romcom/mystery mashup set among a bunch of allegedly college aged people.
With you about KKHH, at least these days. Though some of SRK's earlier work (when he played psychos) is worth a watch.
Good list. Beta is a particular favorite of mine from that era. Also Ram Lakhan and Tridev, just for sheer crazy.
EDIT-
Also Khalnayak. Thats a good test for me to see if noobs can handle masala.
Just to show off Madhuri Dixit. And cuz it has Portuguese subtitles. :P
edited 28th Aug '14 6:17:08 PM by FFShinra
Resident Bollywood Nerd
And because I'm extremely forgetful, new films!
- Pradeep Sarkar's Mardaani. Starring Rani Mukherji. Mumbai Police officer Shivani Shivaji Roy investigates a disappearance from a shelter, only to uncover a child sex racket. Yes, produced by Aditya Chopra, but receiving very decent reviews. Thankfully not very bombastic considering the rather horrifying subject matter (unlike, say, Singham), but it still kinda reminds you of Film/Taken. Rani, though, does very well.
Resident Bollywood Nerd
Double post but... *sigh*
Releases!
- Omung Kumar's Mary Kom, starring Priyanka Chopra, Darshan Kumar. Biopic on MC Mary Kom, Indian boxer and Olympic bronze medalist, and her struggles in dealing with sporting bureaucracy and motherhood, among others. Most were concerned when the glamorous Chopra was chosen for the role (and they really do look very different), but most critics consider it a case of Ability Over Appearence, as Chopra really nails the part. Debutant director Omung Kumar does pretty well, considering it's quite hard to screw up a sports film.
Wow, so many walls of text....
Hello, everyone! New to the Bollywood thread, but not new to Bollywood itself. :P I'm Indian, and I live in the US, and all that.
How is everyone + what kind of Bollywood movies do you all like? Personally, I can't stand the vast majority of Salman's films.
oh my god, Govinda, no.
edited 18th Sep '14 8:32:39 PM by higherbrainpattern
Resident Bollywood Nerd
Anyway, releases!
- Homi Adajania's Finding Fanny, starring Deepika Padukone, Arjun Kapoor, Naseeruddin Shah, Dimple Kapadia and Pankaj Kapur. Quag, this is the film I told you about. In an isolated town in Goa, five people set out to search for the love of one of their's life. English-language, unusually, and a darling of critics since it released, but most friends haven't really understood what's going on.
- Shashanka Ghosh's Khoobsurat starring Sonam Kapoor, Fawad Khan. A romantic comedy between a prince and his physiotherapist. One of the more... trippy soundtracks in Bollywood (Sneha Khanwalkar, Gangs of Wasseypur, Love, Sex aur Dhokha), and with a rather meh plot, but the chemistry between the actors and its sheer visual splendour (it is produced by Disney, after all) seems to be saving graces.
- Habib Faisal's Daawat-e-Ishq, starting Parineeti Chopra and Aditya Roy Kapoor, produced by, yes, Aditya Chopra. A romantic comedy between a girl from Hyderabad and a guy from Lucknow, two places renowned for their food. Yes, cooking is involved. Times like this, you wish for Smell-o-vision in the theatre.

Sonakshi did Lootera, which I've not seen but which she was generally praised in, and which was definitely *not* a plot-irrelevant love interest. It also performed poorly at the box office and didn't win her much attention at awards time, so it's not like she has a lot of motivation to do more films like that. She definitely doesn't look like a man, but she's a tall, big-boned, curvy woman in an industry where the average male star is 5'7" (or less) and usually presented as kind of boyish or androgenously attractive...and said industry largely revolves around the male stars. She's said different times that she just wants to make a pile of money (perhaps to support her family; her brothers are useless and her father's health is not great) and eventually settle down and get married.
Shraddha has lost at least one role due to being an airhead about the time management skills required, and has a reputation of being something of a brat in terms of professional behavior. She's very attractive in a classically Indian way, without the full-figured build that gets Sonakshi slammed by the body shamers. She has great facial expressions but utterly terrible diction, and although I thought she would be a pretty good Ophelia analogue in Haider she's basically the only bad thing in the trailer.