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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2726: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:07:50 PM

Sure, Deadpool can carve up any number of alternate universe versions of characters. While I look forward to Secret Wars, I remain broadly skeptical that meaningful stakes can be maintained after Opening a Can of Clones.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2727: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:13:40 PM

Oh, I completely agree.

Yet now that the can of worms is open, we can't get away from it. Using multiverse clones who can die without any stakes as fodder for fights between characters is something the MCU is probably going to keep doing for a while, at least until after this Doom thing is over and done with.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:13:59 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#2728: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:16:51 PM

Loki in the Marvel cinematic Multiverse is so weak that Deadpool should have no problem beating him.

In the physical realm, even Black Widow ended up beating a variant.

No. Loki in that one episode was defeated because that's what the writers said would happen. If the writers want something else to happen it will. Running analysis is pointless because their power levels aren't consistent.

You can equally point to Loki being bulletproof and able to keep up with Captain America and manhandle (suitless) Tony Stark as "proof" he can make a good accounting of himself.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2729: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:18:03 PM

I mean is an army of expendable Multiverse clones any different than the Chitauri, Ultron bots, or Thanos's army in the Avengers films? They are basically all expendable armies designed to just be fought by the heroes until they get to the Big Bad. I am not saying either is really good, but I just don't see much difference.

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Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#2730: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:18:22 PM

[up][up]Well, yeah, we know that anything that happens at all is really because the writers say said thing will happen... but like, isn't it fun to act like there's in-character reasons for their success or failure?

Edited by Ego-Man25 on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:18:39 AM

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2731: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:19:02 PM

My point is that unless they apply “Forgot Flanders Could Do That”, any fight between Deadpool and a Loki would be a beatdown in Deadpool's favor.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2732: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:20:16 PM

Loki is dramatically stronger, physically speaking, in The Avengers than he is anywhere else in the MCU, but he does have a bit of a power-up courtesy of Thanos, so it's probably fine.

Loki's advantage against any physical combatant is his illusions, coupled with cleverness and psychological analysis. However, if Deadpool sees through all that, Loki would be served up at the next Asgardian cannibal banquet. So, it's very much up to the writers.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 16th 2024 at 6:22:09 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#2733: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:21:13 PM

[up][up] Except that's not it at all. You're cherry picking one example and saying Loki must be weak because of that. As I pointed out Loki's not always that weak.

eta: [up] Loki's got an edge in major powers and physical prowess and centuries of experience in warfare and fighting, keeping up with Thor. Avengers is when he does the most figting and he does scheming a lot else where but he's able to hold his own in Dark World and Ragnarok perfectly fine, barring Kurse.

Deadpool's only edge is that he can heal. And he's always the main character.

Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 16th 2024 at 11:28:27 AM

MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#2734: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:30:25 PM

I hate this type of dick-waggling "power level contest" discourse. Deadpool beats the TVA agents because his thing is killing scores of faceless mooks in a creative and violent opening sequence. Loki loses to them because his thing is hubris and getting knocked down a peg. It's not a video game, characters do what the story needs them to.

regulation pigeon
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2735: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:31:55 PM

So far Loki's variants have consistently been treated as jokes, so it's not like he's a big threat.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2736: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:33:24 PM

I never really got the appeal of going debating which character would win in a fight. All that matters is who the writer wants to win. I believe even Stan Lee said that one.

[up]Sylvie was not really a joke and his main Variant is literally the god of the Multiverse right now, but that version is a good guy. There is also that What if episode where he wins after beating Yellowjacket.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 16th 2024 at 5:35:15 AM

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Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2737: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:35:21 PM

"I believe even Stan Lee said that one."

Still, if you're going to have Harley Quinn beat Superman, you have to give a good explanation. (In fact in a recent game, people wondered why Superman didn't use his super-speed to kill her).

"There is also that What if episode where he wins after beating Yellowjacket."

That version was stomped by Black Widow.

The point is that if an Alt Loki shows up to fight Deadpool, Deadpool would win easily.

Edited by Luisdalas on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:38:12 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2738: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:37:28 PM

That was more because Black Widow caught him by surprise then actually beating him.

Still, if you're going to have Harley Quinn beat Superman, you have to give a good explanation.

True but that is still subject to "the writer wanted it" regardless of the explanation.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 16th 2024 at 5:39:34 AM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2739: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:39:03 PM

Still, if you're going to have Harley Quinn beat Superman, you have to give a good explanation.

Yes, exactly. The writer's job is to explain why, when two characters fight each other, the one the story wants to win is victorious and the other isn't. That's what Stan Lee was getting at.

The downside to power-scaling being such a hot button with fanbases now is that fans start thinking "X character has no business ever fighting Y other character because of scaling, and this supercedes any plot or explanation attached to the story" which is anathema to the storytelling, since character's abilities and powers are ultimately just a plot device.

That's why Stan Lee was so blunt about saying asking him a question like "who would win" is silly.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:42:30 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2740: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:41:33 PM

[up] That is why I don't really care about Power scaling. I only want a good explanation.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 16th 2024 at 5:42:33 AM

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Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#2741: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:43:40 PM

X4[up]"Just throw green rocks at Superman" Sums up Kill the Justice League lol.

Just Makima.
Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2742: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:45:15 PM

Honestly, TVA is inconsistent even by the standards of these movies.

They can catch Physical Gods, but Deadpool handles a bunch of them with moderate difficulty.

Also: If we use the dialogue as an indication, they somehow managed to beat a Magneto and a Doctor Strange.

Edited by Luisdalas on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:50:19 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#2743: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:45:25 PM

There's extreme examples. Thanos vs Spider-Man 1 v 1 generally is hard to believe, but, once again, if the writer can make it convincing, even that can be convincing.

Yes, 1 character might, in theory, be more powerful than the other (though even then it can be apples and oranges if the two fighting have vastly different powers), but external factors (using the environment, outwitting the more powerful person, using a MacGuffin to depower them, etc.) can always justify it. Like in real life, if there was a situation where an average person had to fight a boxer, you'd expect the boxer to win. But, if the average person picked up a gun and shot the boxer, than that person would win.

[up]To be fair, these are a rogue sect, and seemingly a fairly low-level, small one at best.

Edited by king15 on Aug 16th 2024 at 10:46:17 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2744: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:48:47 PM

[up][up] Again they are less familiar with the dealing with someone like Deadpool and once Loki got used to them, he could take them out easily too.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2745: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:50:51 PM

The TVA's strength in apprehending variants seems to mainly rely on surprise. Considering that they only equip melee weapons, it seems that their primary tactical advantage is the ability to appear out of thin air at any place and time. Remember, in Loki, Sylvie chumps dozens of agents by laying traps for them.

Aside from Paradox leading a "rogue" branch, Deadpool knows that the Hunters are coming and, as I pointed out before, invokes the Power of Choreography. The hero is always unbeatable while the opening titles are running, and he knows it.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 16th 2024 at 6:51:51 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#2746: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:51:47 PM

He also harnessed the power of Logan (in more ways than one).

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#2747: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:57:05 PM

I don't think capturing Loki is super difficult. He's a murderous god with great strength (just not too much of it), magic, and a predilection for stabbing, but he's an overconfident fool who will gladly leap into a fight he can't win without thinking just because the idea that he can't win is an affront to him.

It's holding onto him that's the problem. He's slippery and resourceful as all hell.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 16th 2024 at 3:57:57 AM

Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2748: Aug 16th 2024 at 3:57:49 PM

With TVA and their off-screen accomplishments, I wouldn't be surprised if in a future movie, they reveal that they somehow managed to prune the army of Kangs, who appeared in the post-credits of Ant-man 3.

Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#2750: Aug 16th 2024 at 4:06:21 PM

This may be a silly question, but are the Yukio from Deadpool and the Yukio from Wolverine: Immortal supposed to be variants of each other or are they just two women with the same name?

Edited by Luisdalas on Aug 16th 2024 at 4:08:14 AM


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